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Rules Committee meeting descends into chaos -- "Deem & Pass," attempt
Washington Examiner ^ | 03/20/10 12:42 PM EDT | Byron York

Posted on 03/20/2010 10:29:14 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

At the House Rules Committee meeting, Democrats desperate to pass their national health care plan are running into the barrier of basic civics. Here is the problem: The Senate has passed its HCR bill. If the House passes the same bill, it goes on to the president; once he signs it, the bill becomes law. But House Democrats, when they vote for the Senate bill using the "Deem & Pass" dodge, also want to simultaneously pass a package of amendments to the law. Except HCR will not, at that point, be law. It will only become law when the president signs it. Congress can amend the law -- it does so all the time -- but can it amend something that isn't law?

Which is where Democrats are tripping up. Passage of their HCR proposal should be very simple: Senate passes it, House passes it, president signs it. But House Democrats are terrified of voting for the unpopular bill, so they hope to pass it by "Deem & Pass," in which they will vote, not for the bill, but for a rule that both deems the Senate bill to have passed and, in the same vote, passes the package of amendments. So House Democrats will have two fig leaves: 1) they didn't vote directly for the Senate bill, and 2) they voted to simultaneously amend -- to "fix" -- the Senate bill.

The problem is the sequence. Can the House vote to amend something that isn't the law, as the Senate bill will not be law before the president's signature? The Rules Committee meeting turned into mass confusion when Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman said, "We're not going to 'deem' the bill passed. We're going to pass the Senate bill…I would be against the idea of 'deeming' something -- we either pass it or we don't."

To Republican ears, that sounded as if Waxman was speaking out in support of a direct vote on the Senate plan. "I hope we're making news here," said Republican Rep. Joe Barton. If so, Barton added, "Praise the Lord!" Other Democrats jumped in to say that no, there would not be a direct vote on the Senate bill.

Barton then asked whether there would be some period of time between House passage of the Senate bill and House passage of the HCR amendments. During that period of time, the president would sign the Senate HCR bill into law. For the House to amend the HCR law, Barton said, it has to be law, which means the president has to have signed it. "If he doesn't, it ain't a law," Barton said.

Democratic Rep. Sander Levin jumped in. "We're going to be amending the law," he claimed. Waxman added, "We change current law, and the current law will be the Senate bill once it's voted on in the House."

But it won't be law until the president signs it. Obviously, Democrats are performing such strange contortions because many of their members are scared of voting for a bill that will likely mean defeat for them in November. But their attempts to avoid responsibility have created some very basic problems.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhohealthcare; byronyork; deemandpass; obamacare
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To: SHOOT THE MOON bat; afraidfortherepublic

conspicuous by her absence, Michelle Bachmann


61 posted on 03/20/2010 11:04:50 AM PDT by j.argese
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To: txrangerette

I take option 2.


62 posted on 03/20/2010 11:05:00 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

OK..I am listening to CSPAN - fascinating! I don’t know how to count - like I am still not sure that 2X2 is 4 but I think I can understand something: If we pay for 4 years taxes and stuffs and the program does not start before these 4 years which are then supposed to pay for the next 6 years of service - so what happen the next 10 years??? Do they stop the program for 4 years again so they can pay for the next 6 years? Or...if I understand correctly, then a full 10 years CANNOT pay for itself so we are all dead? Again, I am very bad in math but that’s what I come up with. How can they answer to that???


63 posted on 03/20/2010 11:05:34 AM PDT by American Dream 246 (Open your eyes. Freedom is not a one day fight. Enemies of Freedom are legion.)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

At least OBL isn’t trying to pull the wool over our eyes. He is honest in what he wants to do. Destroy us. The Commurats are trying to do it while saying they are only concerned about our well being.


64 posted on 03/20/2010 11:05:44 AM PDT by animal172 (Can a girl with a mole on her face be happy married to a gopher?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The President of the United States is not above the law.

Given that, the President of the United States will not be immune to a court order restraining him/her from signing into law a bill that has not “passed the House of Representatives and the Senate” as required by Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution of the United States.


65 posted on 03/20/2010 11:08:33 AM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

What must it be like to be the President who’s idea’s suck so much that his own party has to jump throw hoops and perform in a three ring circus to get them passed?


66 posted on 03/20/2010 11:08:34 AM PDT by SHOOT THE MOON bat (Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing it's idiot.)
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To: American Dream 246

It’s complicated on purpose. Makes my head hurt. Just wait until they add illegals to the system!


67 posted on 03/20/2010 11:08:57 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

ROFL!

Sessions and the other Republicans are doing GREAT!!!


68 posted on 03/20/2010 11:09:41 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear
Haha! The dems are squirming now - the Repubs have been talking about the inconvenient truth that Mass has comprehensive health care and that the costs are STILL going up!

I found this post on the live thread from Dinah Lord...post #553.
69 posted on 03/20/2010 11:10:20 AM PDT by CaptSkip
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To: PghBaldy
Times like this I wish I hadn’t given up sniffing glue ;)

Yup, looks like I picked a bad year to quit drinking.

70 posted on 03/20/2010 11:11:06 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM, where are you?)
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To: SHOOT THE MOON bat
Send them all home, except Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor. That's about right. They are really all we have.

No-- we have a few more lesser known patriots in the Congress too. Judge them one by one. My critter is so low profile but a staunch conservative and proves it with his votes.

71 posted on 03/20/2010 11:11:19 AM PDT by tflabo (Restore the Republic)
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To: j.argese

Is she on the Rules committee?


72 posted on 03/20/2010 11:11:27 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; LucyT
I have trouble believing they really intend to create law with the deemed pass and sign proposition. I continue to think this is just a fake to get them by the Senate Parliamentarian on the question of whether they can get the House Bill to the Senate floor under the Reconciliation rule.

I think their scheme is that they either pass the House Bill, or more likely, the Senate amends the House Bill and passes a bill as amended and then returns it to the House where they can do this exercise all over again in April or May.

If that proves correct, the real issue will be whether they can pass the amended bill in the house--if they don't, they will need to face the real legal question of whether the fake actually created law.

73 posted on 03/20/2010 11:11:28 AM PDT by David (...)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

They are! “Just the facts, Ma’am.” ;-)


74 posted on 03/20/2010 11:11:37 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Hope the USSC is watching these arrogant Democrats. This is an outrage.


75 posted on 03/20/2010 11:12:15 AM PDT by KansasGirl
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To: CaptSkip

Thanks for the link. :)


76 posted on 03/20/2010 11:12:39 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: Perdogg

They don’t have the votes. Keep the pressure on. Call and fax.


77 posted on 03/20/2010 11:13:03 AM PDT by Frantzie (TV - sending Americans towards Islamic serfdom - Cancel TV service NOW)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Question:

Even if this bill is “deemed and passed,” does the Senate not have to pass reconciliation?

They haven’t yet, right? And the Republicans can make that process a living hell by challenging every aspect of it?

Isn’t that what Orrin Hatch said he would do?

Basically, is this our last line of defense, or do we have another line after this before it gets to Obama’s desk?


78 posted on 03/20/2010 11:13:47 AM PDT by Dan Nunn (Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise. -The Great One)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The Ways and Means report portrays healthcare reform as having a wide-ranging impact on how the IRS operates, including:
• IRS agents would be tasked with determining whether Americans had obtained the insurance coverage required under the individual mandate.
• Individuals could be fined $2,250 or 2 percent of income, whichever is greater, if you are unable to prove you have “minimum essential coverage.”
• The IRS would be empowered to confiscate tax refunds if necessary.
• Audits probably would increase as a result of the legislation’s new requirements.
• The budget for IRS operations will balloon by $10 billion in the next decade in order to administrate the new program.
• Nearly half of the new individual mandate taxes will be paid “by Americans earning less than 300 percent of poverty, $66150 for a family of four.


79 posted on 03/20/2010 11:15:11 AM PDT by mojitojoe (Go ahead, pass it you bastards, I will NEVER comply in any way. Read my lips, NEVER!)
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To: SHOOT THE MOON bat

80 posted on 03/20/2010 11:15:27 AM PDT by arkady_renko
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