KUHNER: Will America break up?

Washington Times ^

[OldPossum]

I recently finished “Enemies Foreign and Domestic” and thoroughly enjoyed it. I have a copy of “Domestic Enemies” and will read it next. You have quite a talent in presenting your material.

Unfortunately, the scenarios you present, while fiction, are well within the realm of possibilities.

[Travis McGee]

I wrote them as cautionary tales, but they are getting a little too close to reality for comfort.

[kaylar]

Of course we would want to make clear, in the event of a breakup, that "All men are created equal", and that there would be no discrimination against any race or ethnicity in a strict constitutionally-based republic. That said, if a state *could* get free of DC, I imagine the entitled and the dependent (which would include many whites, of course) would try to move to the areas DC controls, to keep on being supported and dependent, and to keep on getting entitlements and set asides, for those that eligible. And hopefully , if patriots *DO* try to free their states from DC, their ranks will include past and present US military-lots of minority membership there :-). But I think, if the union breaks up, Mexico will get chunks of what was US territory . And some states may well want to break free of DC because DC isn't "liberal" or "eco-friendly" enough-who knows what parts of the left coast would do????

Whatever comes about because of an economic crash will be far worse and far uglier than 1929-1941, that's for sure. :-(

[x]

Lost States is a new book about planned states that never developed. Some of it is silly -- plans to make Britain or Iceland or Guyana US states -- but there were an awful lot of attempts through time to split states apart.

Sometimes the guy who wrote the book just wanted to talk about some geographical oddity -- a tiny bit of Texas on the other side of the Rio Grande, the guano islands the US owns in other parts of the world -- but it's not all tongue in cheek.

Only two plans for splitting up an existing state, so far as I know, were successful: Maine separating from Massachusetts and West Virginia from Virginia. But there were many proposals for "secession" from existing states. Eastern Washington and Oregon, Western Nebraska and Kansas, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, Southern New Jersey, the Texas Panhandle, Northern or Southern Florida or Texas or California, New York City, etc.

The main reason the plans didn't work was the existing states had to give their permission to any new states created out of their territory. They don't often do that. Another reason was that new states had to have a large enough population to justify their existence and many planned states didn't.

Congressional politics also had an effect. If a proposed state leaned one way politically and there wasn't another projected state that leaned the other statehood was also unlikely.

Still another reason was that the discontent ended. A new governor took office, perhaps with the support of the dissenting region, and the grievances and agitation died down.

I suspect something like this will happen on the national level. It's certainly possible that we're going through now is a once-in-a-generation lurch that the country will recoil from in time. It's hard to imagine things being as polarized as they are now forever.

[thecodont]

I think it is interesting that the alleged capitalist financiers in Manhattan were the ones who plunged us headlong into socialism in 2008. But their form of socialism is a socialism for the elites, and their leaders come from both parties, the Romney’s, the McCain’s, the Obama’s, etc.

The SRM is calling these people "evil capitalists" and citing them as an example of why socialism should replace the free market and capitalism in this country. A half-truth is stronger and more dangerous than an outright lie.

[central_va]

The Civil War settled another matter without equivocation. The Federal Government will suspend the Constitution, go to war against and defeat any state that secedes.

Molon Labe.

[matt1234]

We have one more election to turn it around. Last chance is Nov. 2010. After that, all bets are off.....

Good point. I suspect the period between now and then will be VERY interesting. I think we will see things that we have never seen in our lifetimes. For example, when is the last time there was a brawl in the House of Representatives?

[Publius]

For example, when is the last time there was a brawl in the House of Representatives?

When Rep. Preston Brooks of South Carolina came over to the Senate side and caned Sen. Charles Sumner of Massachusetts. (OK, maybe that didn't happen in the House chamber, but it's close.)

Then there was the fistfight where Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina KO'd Sen. Ralph Yarborough of Texas in one round in a Senate hallway. (Maybe that one doesn't count either, but it's in the same spirit.)

[central_va]

I would love to see Pelousy B-slapped on the house floor....

[matt1234]

Thanks for the information. When did those fights occur?

[Blue Ink]

Someone always says “Give ‘em California” in these threads. I mostly lurk, but this morning I’m a little down about events of the last couple weeks, so...

I’m Los Angeles born and raised, and in my lifetime my state has devolved from the quintessential American promised land to an occupied territory. We are a statistical hairsbreadth from the majority of residents being foreign born. (Personally, I think we’ve already crossed that Rubicon, but the numbers crunchers are afraid to let that particular cat out of the bag.)

What’s so dismaying is that my state was simply ceded to another country, without a shot being fired. How did this happen? Was the rest of America simply unaware, and now you think nothing can be done to help us, so the answer is to cut us loose? Do you think it can’t happen in your state?

The occupiers and their enablers are the ones you’re mad at — not those of us who haven’t moved Idaho. (Not that I blame my fellow Californians for getting out if they feel they have to.)

The invaders have bankrupted us, financially and culturally. Of course they’re socialists — socialism is all they know. But look at a red/blue county map of California. Outside of San Francisco and Los Angeles, we’re a red state, with a proud conservative history. We gave the country Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. Look at it from a strictly pragmatic, self-interested point of view if you don’t give a damn about your fellow Americans — you can’t afford to just write us off. Do you realize the staggering wealth of this state? The agricultural capability alone is utterly vital to the health of the entire country.

I can’t speak intelligently about Chicago, Vermont, New York and Detroit. But I do know this: as California goes, so goes the nation. I’ve seen it over and over. The fight is here. Those of us who stay could use the support of the rest of America.

[SonOfDarkSkies]

I was speaking to much too loosely. Sorry.

I like LA and Cal (just not San Fran) and shouldn't have included it.

That said, maybe we can just put the liberals on a floating barge or ice berg and set them out to sea...or even better yet, get them to agree to have a series of civil debates wherein we actually try to resolve our differences or at least agree to disagree like mature people.

[Publius]

On May 22, 1856, Brooks beat Senator Charles Sumner with his Gutta-percha wood walking cane in the Senate chamber because of a speech Sumner had made three days earlier, for singling out Brooks’ relative, Andrew Butler. Senator Andrew Butler was not in attendance when the speech was read, but Sumner compared Butler with Don Quixote for embracing slavery, and mocking Butler for a physical handicap. Senator Stephen Douglas of Illinois, who was also a subject of criticism during the speech, suggested to a colleague while Sumner was orating that “this damn fool [Sumner] is going to get himself shot by some other damn fool.”

At first intending to challenge Sumner to a duel, Brooks consulted with fellow South Carolina Rep. Laurence M. Keitt on dueling etiquette. Keitt instructed him that dueling was for gentlemen of equal social standing, and suggested that Sumner occupied a lower social status comparable to a drunkard due to the supposedly coarse language he had used during his speech. Brooks thus decided to attack Sumner with a cane.

Two days after the speech, on the afternoon of May 22, Brooks confronted Sumner as he sat writing at his desk in the almost empty Senate chamber. Brooks was accompanied by Keitt and Henry Edmundson of Virginia. Brooks said, “Mr. Sumner, I have read your speech twice over carefully. It is a libel on South Carolina, and Mr. Butler, who is a relative of mine.” As Sumner began to stand up, Brooks began beating Sumner with his thick gutta-percha cane with a gold head. Sumner was trapped under the heavy desk (which was bolted to the floor), but Brooks continued to bash Sumner until he ripped the desk from the floor. By this time, Sumner was blinded by his own blood, and he staggered up the aisle and collapsed, lapsing into unconsciousness. Brooks continued to beat Sumner until he broke his cane, then quietly left the chamber. Several other senators attempted to help Sumner, but were blocked by Keitt who was brandishing a pistol and shouting “Let them be!” (Keitt would be censured for his actions and later died of wounds in 1864 fighting for the Confederacy during the Civil War.)

Sumner was unable to return to his Senate duties for more than three years while he recovered. He later became one of the most influential Radical Republicans throughout the conduct of the Civil War, and on through the early years of Reconstruction.

(from Wikipedia)

Concerning the Thurmond-Yarborough bout, in 1964 Yarborough tried to drag Thurmond to his committee seat to vote on Civil Rights legislation. It was a mistake.

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

as well as inner city against suburbs....

I easily think Florida ( where I am) could “break away”...seceding doesn’t mean breaking up the union now...States—some of them— will “secede” financially by not (being able to or wanting to) “pay” for the Obozocare mandates.

[DuncanWaring]

Brooks continued to beat Sumner until he broke his cane,...

Legend has it that Brooks later received many gifts of replacement canes.

[Blue Ink]

DarkSkies, I was wrong to suggest that people of obvious good will who are just trying to make sense of these times as I am don’t care about their fellow Americans. Every now and then I need to put on the gum shoes of a New Englander or the hoop skirts of a Southerner and consider the sheer lunacy that emanates from our state from their point of view...

All the best.

[Blue Ink]

Oops, how did I address that to myself?

DarkSkies, I was wrong to suggest that people of obvious good will who are just trying to make sense of these times as I am don’t care about their fellow Americans. Every now and then I need to put on the gum shoes of a New Englander or the hoop skirts of a Southerner and consider the sheer lunacy that emanates from our state from their point of view...

All the best.

[happygrl]

Reminds me of Walter Williams commentary after the 2000 election fiasco.

[backhoe]

From my comments, here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2477617/posts?page=47#47

To: Travis McGee; All
Prager is catching up to the harsh reality. But he’s still behind the curve.

Yes, he is...to quote mine own evil sef', here:

9,520 posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:00:00 AM

”Zimbabwe On The Potomac...”

You know there were warning signs...

I kept telling people when Bill Clinton slithered in to office, and clung to it, despite all the scandals, and Impeachment itself-- “He's just a symptom. Like a fever is of a disease- there's something wrong with America.”

Like Popular Culture- look at the magazines-- I call it “thugs & jugs,” or “which Pop Tart is popping out whose baby this week?”

Or Katrina- ever seen so many people milling around with their hands out, when they should have been helping themselves?

We did it to ourselves, and The New, Improved Black Jesus is merely a symptom.

All civilizations have a shelf life- once enough citizens figure out that by electing the “right” representatives, they can use the power of the government to pick the pockets of others,

...it's all over, except for the details.

Well, we're in the “details,” now.

Meanwhile, I have to figure out what Miss Emily and I do with what's left of our lives, and bush hog her Mom's old place in the country, because City Life isn't going to be worth living from here on out.

I'll catch you all later...

...maybe...

[central_va]

Dear CA person.

My advice, get out. There is nothing we can do to help New Greece. The weather is nice but it's not worth it.

A new world is coming, get ahead of the curve.