[Publius]

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Earlier threads:

FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution
5 Oct 1787, Centinel #1
6 Oct 1787, James Wilson’s Speech at the State House
8 Oct 1787, Federal Farmer #1
9 Oct 1787, Federal Farmer #2
18 Oct 1787, Brutus #1
22 Oct 1787, John DeWitt #1
27 Oct 1787, John DeWitt #2
27 Oct 1787, Federalist #1
31 Oct 1787, Federalist #2
3 Nov 1787, Federalist #3
5 Nov 1787, John DeWitt #3
7 Nov 1787, Federalist #4
10 Nov 1787, Federalist #5
14 Nov 1787, Federalist #6
15 Nov 1787, Federalist #7
20 Nov 1787, Federalist #8
21 Nov 1787, Federalist #9

[The Pack Knight]

At 69, Madison argues that the larger size of a republic permits people to find a better class of officeholder. Why did he fail to get this one right?

I don't take it as a given that he did not get that one right. While I am not overly impressed with the general quality of federal officeholder we have today, I am not certain that the quality would be better in a smaller republic.

While I admit that it is far from a perfect analogy, I think we can look to the relative qualities of state vs. federal officerholders throughout recent history for some amount of evidence on this issue. I find it hard to argue that state officers have been of any better quality than federal officers - in fact, I would argue that they are of substantially lesser quality. I would not particularly want the Governor and legislature of my state, North Carolina, in charge in Washington.

I think there are a lot of causes for the general decline in quality of federal officeholder over the life of our republic. I am not convinced that the size of our republic is one of them.

[mc5cents]

By a faction, I understand a number of citizens, whether amounting to a majority or a minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.

I think he just described the modern day democrat party.

[The Pack Knight]

At 62 through 65, Madison points to the fine results of people electing officeholders who are full of wisdom. What happens when people elect officeholders whose job is to divide up the money pie so as to distribute it to the voters?

I think Madison's response to this would be that the proposed Constitution did not permit Congress to divvy up and distribute federal monies to the voters. His view of the Taxing and Spending Clause was that the Congress's taxing and spending power was limited to spending in support of Congress's other enumerated powers and to fulfill the responsibilities those powers entailed.

Unfortunately for our republic, Hamilton's more plenipotentiary view of the Taxing and Spending Clause has prevailed.

[stevie_d_64]

“Faction” being a term in this paper that I am having a little bit of a hard time nailing down its applicability in todays world...

Even though I have an idea, it is so dynamic, that it blurs from time to time when I read through this paper...

Bottom line, I believe our system of government haas outgrown its britches, and due to the corruptions of these “factions”, I believe it is time to scale it back dramatically to reduce, or better yet, reset the system and get us back on track...

Whether the “factions” are in a minority or a majority, their influence has gotten us into this mess...

No one can completely understand it all, and why it has come to this, but I am really believing we need to reset the system, thats all there is to it...And this essay really helps me grasp that idea...

[Bigun]

72 The federal Constitution forms a happy combination in this respect; the great and aggregate interests being referred to the national, the local and particular to the state legislatures.

It is a long, dense, methodical, occasionally divergent, and difficult case to follow, but Madison has at last arrived. A government of governments, in his view, is the best guardian against the stress of faction.

I agree with Mr Madison and live for the day when we are again blessed with such a government! Unfortunately we don't currently enjoy anything like it.

[TASMANIANRED]

“The effect of the first difference is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations.”

Character matters.

[EdReform]

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