Posted on 04/05/2010 3:13:26 PM PDT by wagglebee
He's pulling a liberal stunt. He calls people liars when it's he himself that is lying.
He's trying to take advantage of those people that didn't learn Latin.
fetus (Latin) = infant,young,progeny (English)
So this is a debate at the Oxford Union now?
You're ridiculous.
Biblically, that is not so.
The story of Jesus' birth is also a story of John Batist's birth. John leapt in his mother's womb when Mary visited Elizabeth. John is clearly shown reacting as a sentient, spiritual being. You do greatly err.
Luke 1: 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!"
Babies feel pain in the womb. So a baby who is aborted experiences pain, this is no doubt about this. So abortion is never good for a baby; and since death is inevitable for everyone at some point, abortion is always for the convenience of the mother or father.
I may tell my own story later. I know from very bitter personal experience that choosing abortion imparts pain that doesn’t go away, even after decades.
This choice is not horrible and you are free to make it. The mother is at liberty, in fact, it is her obligation, to give the baby, dying and suffering or otherwise, all the care that she can afford and the medical science offers. She is not at liberty to kill him, again, regardless of any anguish she might be experiencing.
There are a few Reagan quotes that libertarian anarchists love to misquote and that is one of them.
President Reagan was saying that government intervention would create more problems in the 1982 recession, he WAS NOT saying that the government was always the problem.
What you are trying to attribute to President Reagan is the idea that he would have opposed laws outlawing abortion and nothing could be further from the truth.
Excellent post!
"Biblically, that is not so."
"The story of Jesus' birth is also a story of John Batist's birth. John leapt in his mother's womb when Mary visited Elizabeth. John is clearly shown reacting as a sentient, spiritual being. You do greatly err."
Then quoted Luke 1:41
It does not say the babe is a human being. It is unborn, not a baby yet. Unborn babies move all the time. Just because something moves it does not make it a human being.
If the unborn are already human being, why isn't age marked from conception and not birth.
Gen.12:12 "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised ..."
And every other reference to cirmcision's date is the same. Eight days, not eight days and nine months.
Since you like to quote Scripture:
In the Bible the penalty for murder is death, as well as for a great many other wrongs. The death penalty is prescribed for all the following:
Worshipping other gods [Exodus 22:24, Deut. 13:1-5, 20-22]
Idolatry [Deut.. 17:2-7]
Blaspheming [Lev. 24:10-16]
Violating Sabbath [Exodus 31:15, 35:2, Num. 15:32-36]
Dishonoring Parents [Exodus 21:15&17, Lev. 20:9, Deut. 21:18-20]
Murder [Exodus 21:12-14, Lev. 24:17, Num. 35:17, 30-33, Gen. 9:6]
Adultery & Fornication [Exodus 22:18, Lev. 20:17, Deut. 22:21-29]
Stealing [Josh 7:10-26]
False Witness [Deut. 19:15-21]
Kidnapping [Exodus 21:16]
Covetousness [Josh 7:10-26]
Causing a woman to loose an unborn child, however, did not bear the death penalty, because it was not considered murder, that is, it is not killing a human being. It is not even considered as sever as idolatry, or covetousness.
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. (That is, a fine.) [Exodus 21:22]
Hank
Then what EXACTLY makes it a human being?
If a baby IS NOT a human being then why have you previously said that you are opposed to killing it? (Though you have no interest in actually ending abortion.)
Causing a woman to loose an unborn child, however, did not bear the death penalty, because it was not considered murder, that is, it is not killing a human being. It is not even considered as sever [sic] as idolatry, or covetousness.
Is this one of the new talking points that Zero has put out for pro-abortion trolls?
Show us from Scripture where it says that abortion IS NOT a serious offense. Show us where it distinguishes abortion from murder.
“What you are trying to attribute to President Reagan is the idea that he would have opposed laws outlawing abortion and nothing could be further from the truth.”
I know exactly what the context of Ronald Reagan’s statement was. I’m not attributing anything to him. I was not quoting it as authority, it was rhetorical for a principle, that government involvement in anything is always a problem.
If you decide that government ought to have the power to decide medical issues, and what a woman must or must not do with regard to her unborn child, you’ve accepted that principle, and have no argument when the government decides a woman who already has one or two children must abort any additional children, and you have no argument against ObamaCare.
I do not want the government to have that power, ever.
Hank
One thing you MUST keep in mind.
The most vehement pro-aborts (ie, “reproductive rights”) are actually HAD-aborts. They KNOW the truth - they killed an innocent human baby.
Any reminder in law, or in societal morality, that reminds them that, indeed, their child was a little human being, THEIR CHILD, and that they “chose” to kill it,
is completely unacceptable to their conscience.
Asking for forgiveness from the Lord and repenting and attempting to spread the truth about what abortion really is would actually give them the peace they desire.
But they often choose to justify their “choice” - I HAD A RIGHT TO DO IT! IT WASN’T A BABY! (even though their conscience screams to the contrary)
That puts it better than I would have.
“If you decide that government ought to have the power to decide medical issues,...”
Abortion is NOT a medical issue. Medical ethics always forbade abortion. It was the STATE getting involved that took what was ALWAYS a crime and made it legal.
I, for one, admire your candor.
“Make no mistake, abortion-on-demand is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. No serious scholar, including one disposed to agree with the Court’s result, has argued that the framers of the Constitution intended to create such a right.”
Ronald Reagan
“Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born.” Ronald Reagan
Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.
What the Divine has ruled on,
let us not pretend to rule against.
My God man, do you have two functioning brain cells to see that the issue is about murder, not some feely good twisted misunderstanding of *freedom*?
By your twisted reasoning, we might as well just make all forms of murder legal, because after all, why should anyone impose his will on anyone else who wants to kill someone? After all, that's government intervention, forcing someone to not do what they want to and the government doesn't have that right. They have their *freedom* after all. If they want to kill someone, who's business it that?
Often when you ask someone WHEN does the “fetus” become a human deserving the protection of the state,
you’ll get a “I don’t know”. This was 0bama’s answer - “above my pay grade”.
Well, then - if we “don’t know”, or more accurately, don’t want to admit where the logic would take us,
should we err on the side of KILLING A HUMAN BEING?
If I was hunting with a buddy and didn’t know where he was and saw some movement in the brush ahead and “didn’t know” if it was a deer or my hunting buddy, should I just “err on the side of convenience” and shoot at the movement in case it’s a deer?
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