[Publius]

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Earlier threads:

FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution
5 Oct 1787, Centinel #1
6 Oct 1787, James Wilson’s Speech at the State House
8 Oct 1787, Federal Farmer #1
9 Oct 1787, Federal Farmer #2
18 Oct 1787, Brutus #1
22 Oct 1787, John DeWitt #1
27 Oct 1787, John DeWitt #2
27 Oct 1787, Federalist #1
31 Oct 1787, Federalist #2
3 Nov 1787, Federalist #3
5 Nov 1787, John DeWitt #3
7 Nov 1787, Federalist #4
10 Nov 1787, Federalist #5
14 Nov 1787, Federalist #6
15 Nov 1787, Federalist #7
20 Nov 1787, Federalist #8
21 Nov 1787, Federalist #9
23 Nov 1787, Federalist #10
24 Nov 1787, Federalist #11
27 Nov 1787, Federalist #12
27 Nov 1787, Cato #5
28 Nov 1787, Federalist #13

[Bigun]

At 5 and 6, Brutus defines the difference between a tyrannous government and a free government, a definition that has stood the test of time. Is the present United States government tyrannous or free, and why?

Tyrannical without a doubt! and for the reasons Brutus stated i.e. "That (the object) of every tyrannical government is the happiness and aggrandizement of one or a few, and to this the public felicity and every other interest must submit.

How can anyone believe this to be a FREE country when we all labor under a tax system that claims and apriory right to the fruits our labor and the enforcement agency of which can destroy anyone it chooses at any time with a mere allegation?

I note just one of many many examples of why we can no longer believe ourselves to be a FREE people.

[Bigun]

At 21 through 29, Brutus brings up the point that a small representation permits ease of bribery. Was the decision to limit the House of Representatives to 435 members a mistake? Would an increase in the size of the House change the dynamic of corruption for the better or worse?

I'm not sure at this point that it would make any real difference whether the house has 435, 8700 (the rough number it would be if we had stayed with the original 1 per 30,000 requirement), or 87,000. If the people continue their refusal to pay attention to what their representatives do on their behalf it would make no difference whatever.

[Bigun]

At 25, Brutus lays out the tools of how corrupt politicians can seduce the electorate or well-meaning men. But do those tools work the other way, and how?

Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.

Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833

“The object and practice of liberty lies in the limitation of governmental power.”

General Douglas MacArthur

“Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.”

Frederic Bastiat

“Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.”

Pericles (430 B.C.)

“Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”,/i>

William Pitt

[Bigun]

At 32 and 33, Brutus points out that people will either follow the law because they believe in it or because they are coerced, and that coercion marks the end of free government and liberty. Apply his points to current events.

"... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one MAKES them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. ......just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted -- and you create a nation of law-breakers -- and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

p.411, Ayn Rand, ATLAS SHRUGGED, Signet Books, NY, 1957

[Bigun]

At 36, Brutus points out the danger of the federal government taking on responsibilities it cannot attempt and has no business attempting. Apply his point to current events.

Ill bet that two thirds to three quarters of everything the federal government currently does is outside the bounds of the Constitution.

"Liberty and security in government depend not on the limits, which the rulers may please to assign to the exercise of their own powers, but on the boundaries, within which their powers are circumscribed by the constitution. With us, the powers of magistrates, call them by whatever name you please, are the grants of the people . . . The supreme power is in them; and in them, even when a constitution is formed, and government is in operation, the supreme power still remains. A portion of their authority they, indeed, delegate; but they delegate that portion in whatever manner, in whatever measure, for whatever time, to whatever persons, and on whatever conditions they choose to fix."

U.S. Supreme Court Justice James Wilson (Lectures, 1790-1791)

[Publius6961]

36 One of the most capital errors in the system is that of extending the powers of the federal government to objects to which it is not adequate, which it cannot exercise without endangering public liberty, and which it is not necessary they should possess in order to preserve the Union and manage our national concerns; of this, however, I shall treat more fully in some future paper.

There is too much in this thread to absorb easily. However, this one quotation summarizes the entire potential problem, and perfectly describes the political morass of hopelessness being experienced by the average citizen today, apparently powerless to change it.

[Bigun]

At 42 and 43, Brutus explores congressmen as men apart from their community, perceiving themselves above that community. Apply his point to current events.

The most recent example would be the healthcare fiasco. There as many others as one would care to find.

[Jacquerie]

Yates was appointed to attend the Constitutional Convention. Too bad he bolted. He could have left a positive mark on history.

[TASMANIANRED]

23 Men of this character are generally artful and designing, and frequently possess brilliant talents and abilities; they commonly act in concert and agree to share the spoils of their country among them; they will keep their object ever in view and follow it with constancy.

24 To effect their purpose, they will assume any shape and – Proteus-like – mold themselves into any form.

25 Where they find members’ proof against direct bribery or gifts of offices, they will endeavor to mislead their minds by specious and false reasoning, to impose upon their unsuspecting honesty by an affectation of zeal for the public good; they will form juntos and hold outdoor meetings; they will operate upon the good nature of their opponents by a thousand little attentions and tease them into compliance by the earnestness of solicitation.”

The vast amount of juggling that has gone on in Congress for a very long time has amounted to little more than vote buying by squandering the taxes of the people.