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Anti-Zionist rabbi Moshe Hirsch dies in Jerusalem
Yahoo - AP ^ | 05/03/10

Posted on 05/03/2010 6:44:30 AM PDT by Borges

JERUSALEM – Moshe Hirsch, an American-born anti-Zionist rabbi and close associate of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, has died in Jerusalem, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish group said Monday. He was 86.

Hirsch was a leading figure in Neturei Karta, a tiny ultra-Orthodox sect that opposes Israel's existence as a Jewish state and has embraced its enemies. He was born in New York and attended a rabbinical academy in New Jersey.

Arafat, who died in 2004, appointed Hirsch his adviser on Jewish affairs.

The group is known for its members' 2006 trip to Iran, where they embraced the President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad at a Holocaust-denying conference. It also supports Gaza's Hamas rulers and the Lebanese Hezbollah militants.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: antiisrael; antisemite; antisemitic; antisemitism; antizionism; antizionist; israel; liberalkoolaid; moshehirsch; rabbi
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1 posted on 05/03/2010 6:44:30 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Zionist Conspirator; wideawake

What do you make of this guy?


2 posted on 05/03/2010 6:44:57 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges

.
What is an “anti-Zionist”?


3 posted on 05/03/2010 6:48:46 AM PDT by Touch Not the Cat (Where is the light? Wonder if it's weeping somewhere...)
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To: Borges

I’m not Jewish, but the guy sounds like a traitor to the Jewish faith .....


4 posted on 05/03/2010 6:49:21 AM PDT by Ken522
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To: Borges

Sounds like the Jewish version of Cardinal Mahoney of LA.


5 posted on 05/03/2010 6:51:11 AM PDT by Dengar01
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To: Ken522

Neturei Karta are all traitors to Israel. The world is better off without him.


6 posted on 05/03/2010 6:51:39 AM PDT by Astronaut
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To: Borges

I’ve never understood how ultra-orthodox Jews oppose the existence of Israel as a state.


7 posted on 05/03/2010 6:53:33 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: Touch Not the Cat
What is an “anti-Zionist”?

Antisemite by a different name.

Neturei Karta have been honored guests of Ahmadinejad. Among other things.

8 posted on 05/03/2010 6:53:35 AM PDT by Hardraade
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To: Astronaut

and these people live in Israel?


9 posted on 05/03/2010 6:53:57 AM PDT by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com << Get your science fiction and fiction test marketed)
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To: Borges

.


10 posted on 05/03/2010 6:54:57 AM PDT by FoxPro (jroehl2@yahoo.com)
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To: Hardraade

Sounds like he hated himself


11 posted on 05/03/2010 6:54:59 AM PDT by wild74
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To: GeronL

Kudzoyka zu Moshe.


12 posted on 05/03/2010 6:55:04 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: Borges

Worm meat who will soon be forgotten.


13 posted on 05/03/2010 6:55:19 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Is it sedition to defy usurpation?)
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To: Borges

Apparently Soros was a Jew that helped herd other Jews off to concentration camps. This guy sounds like another one of those types.


14 posted on 05/03/2010 6:56:44 AM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Borges
God have mercy on his memory ... his soul is already wherever it was going to go and there's no changeing it.

God's mercy is for the living.


The guy's done his damage and he is done.

15 posted on 05/03/2010 6:58:21 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: tsmith130
"I’ve never understood how ultra-orthodox Jews oppose the existence of Israel as a state." Because the government is a secular one. If it was run by the Mashiach they would be the biggest supporters. Rebbe Schneerson was in the running for Messiah but he died in 1994.
16 posted on 05/03/2010 6:58:46 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: massgopguy

Translation from the Yiddish? Something ‘to Moshe(rabbenu)’.


17 posted on 05/03/2010 7:00:22 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Because the government is a secular one. If it was run by the Mashiach they would be the biggest supporters.

Oooooh...I get it now. Thanks!

18 posted on 05/03/2010 7:00:36 AM PDT by tsmith130
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To: Jack Hydrazine

He didn’t die. He wears a different hat and works for Travelocity nowdays.


19 posted on 05/03/2010 7:05:24 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (Is it sedition to defy usurpation?)
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To: Borges

(As he wakes up in hell): “What, what?”


20 posted on 05/03/2010 7:05:28 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Hardraade
Rabbi &amp; Ahmadinejad
21 posted on 05/03/2010 7:10:00 AM PDT by Hardraade
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To: Borges

Hopefully he and his friend Arafat are dungeon mates now.


22 posted on 05/03/2010 7:11:11 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Psalm 144
LOL! That's hilarious!

I heard that he was supposed to be reincarnate and be born in Bethlehem but that remains to be seen. What's interesting to read about is his followers within Lubavitch are basically split 50/50 as to whether he was divine or not. He did perform some minor miracles which aren't debatable but to say he is God is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Whatever you do just 'prepare for the coming of Moshiach!'

23 posted on 05/03/2010 7:13:16 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
...Lubavitch are basically split 50/50 as to whether he was divine or not...

I hope that was sarcasm! Or do you have Rasmussen poll results?

24 posted on 05/03/2010 7:21:29 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

I read it in an Orthodox Jewish magazine.


25 posted on 05/03/2010 7:50:21 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Just FYI, there is a large segment of Orthodox Judaism that do not accept the concept of Chassidut at all and of course do not speak well of Lubavitch or any other Chassidic sect.


26 posted on 05/03/2010 7:54:54 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Borges
What do you make of this guy?

The so-called "ultra-Orthodox" have always opposed modern Zionism because it is historically a secular movement based not on Torah but on nineteenth century European nationalism and romanticism (the Italian Risorgimento was a particular inspiration). To this day some of the most "militant" supporters of Israel and opponents of the Arabs in the "ultra-Orthodox" world are technically "anti-Zionist." (This is also why the late Lubavitcher Rebbe set up his headquarters in Brooklyn and didn't settle in Israel himself).

However, Neturei Karta are a special case. They are rejected by even the most fanatical mainstream "anti-Zionists" in the Charedi world (such as Satmar). Furthermore, considering that Arafat (yimach shemo vezikhro!) was a Communist and a homosexual, any "rabbi" who was friends with him must be suspect.

27 posted on 05/03/2010 7:55:00 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
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To: Borges
The Anti-Zionists of Neturei Karta believe that the modern founding of Israel must be done by the Messiah and not by men. Zionists believe that Israel must be founded in order to enable the coming of the Messiah. It's a chicken and the egg question, which comes first.
28 posted on 05/03/2010 7:57:42 AM PDT by bsaunders
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To: jjotto; Jack Hydrazine
...Lubavitch are basically split 50/50 as to whether he was divine or not...

I hope that was sarcasm! Or do you have Rasmussen poll results?

The belief that the Rebbe was Mashiach and that he was (chas vechalilah!!!) "G-d in a human body" are not the same thing. Many CHaBa"Dniks who subscribe to the former position reject the latter with horror as utter heresy and subversion (which it is).

Those who believe the Rebbe is Mashiach subscribe to one of two theories: that Mashiach will be from among the resurrected righteous (an old Talmudic idea), or that the Rebbe never actually died but, as with Moses on Sinai during the incident of the Golden Calf, the Satan showed people an illusion of the Rebbe's death.

Boruch Ellison is a very controversial figure in CHaBa"D, but while he believes the Rebbe is Mashiach, he is adamantly opposed to the "Divine incarnation" teaching.

29 posted on 05/03/2010 8:03:31 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Just FYI, there is a large segment of Orthodox Judaism that do not accept the concept of Chassidut at all and of course do not speak well of Lubavitch or any other Chassidic sect.


30 posted on 05/03/2010 8:04:29 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Just FYI, there is a large segment of Orthodox Judaism that do not accept the concept of Chassidut at all and of course do not speak well of Lubavitch or any other Chassidic sect.


31 posted on 05/03/2010 8:04:30 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Just FYI, there is a large segment of Orthodox Judaism that do not accept the concept of Chassidut at all and of course do not speak well of Lubavitch or any other Chassidic sect.


32 posted on 05/03/2010 8:04:32 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I was not aware that Boruch Ellison is even Jewish! I know he’s a bit too kooky for my taste.


33 posted on 05/03/2010 8:07:38 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Rabbi Schneerson saw hundred of thousands of people in private audiences and consultations. His advice and guidance was highly valued. He gave a new one dollar bill to everyone who came for the free consult


34 posted on 05/03/2010 8:08:29 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: jjotto
I was not aware that Boruch Ellison is even Jewish! I know he’s a bit too kooky for my taste.

I believe he is a ger tzedeq.

At any rate, yes, is is out of the mainstream. And he believes the Rebbe is Mashiach. But he regards 'Eloqut as rank heresy and subversion, which shows just how bizarre and beyond the pale that belief is.

35 posted on 05/03/2010 8:10:51 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
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To: Borges

Hell is getting awfully crowded.


36 posted on 05/03/2010 8:13:47 AM PDT by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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To: jjotto

I am quite aware of that. Lubavitch and other sects of Chassidut are kind off in their own world.


37 posted on 05/03/2010 8:17:11 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: dennisw

Don’t get me wrong. Rebbe Schneerson was a good guy who did a lot of good to others, but you have those few individuals who want take who he is and what he did and mold into something else for their own purposes.

Was he a man who feared God (a tzaddik)? Yes.
Was he a blessing to his fellow man? Yes!
Was he the Messiah? No.
Was he a man whom other men should study and learn from? Of course!


38 posted on 05/03/2010 8:22:10 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I agree on all counts. He’s as close as Judaism gets to a super-Guru type of figure. People would want to see him for even a quickie consult so they could bathe in his radiance and be able to live their life knowing they had met a giant of Judaism.

I believe his study of Torah elevated him very high. I wonder if he studied Kaballah. Another very high rabbi was the Vilna Goan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilna_Gaon I think they develop certain “mystical powers” let us say. Like a Christian saint.


39 posted on 05/03/2010 8:33:42 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: dennisw

His father was an authority on Kabbalah so it’s a given that the Rebbe would have studied it, too.


40 posted on 05/03/2010 8:57:10 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Thanks. I guess that clears up the Kaballah issue


41 posted on 05/03/2010 9:08:31 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: dennisw
Rabbi Schneerson saw hundred of thousands of people in private audiences and consultations. His advice and guidance was highly valued. He gave a new one dollar bill to everyone who came for the free consult

He did this so the person who consulted him would donate the dollar to tzedaqah (charity) and get the zekhut (merit) for performing a mitzvah.

42 posted on 05/03/2010 10:00:41 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Thanks much! Do you think Reb Schneerson was roughly equivalent to a Christian saint?


43 posted on 05/03/2010 10:09:24 AM PDT by dennisw (It all comes 'round again --Fairport)
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To: dennisw
Thanks much! Do you think Reb Schneerson was roughly equivalent to a Christian saint?

A strange question to ask someone who regards chr*stianity as a false religion.

44 posted on 05/03/2010 10:19:33 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . Uqera'tem deror ba'aretz, lekhol yosheveyha . . .)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; dennisw
"Thanks much! Do you think Reb Schneerson was roughly equivalent to a Christian saint?"

A strange question to ask someone who regards chr*stianity as a false religion.

Do you think Reb Schneerson was roughly equivalent to a saint in that false religion chr*stianity?

How's that?

45 posted on 05/03/2010 2:49:40 PM PDT by Salem (What can men do against such reckless hate? ... Ride out with me. Ride out and meet them!)
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To: Borges

Prayers for a profoundly misguided individual.


46 posted on 05/03/2010 6:35:16 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Amber Lamps !"~~)
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To: Jack Hydrazine; tsmith130
I’ve never understood how ultra-orthodox Jews oppose the existence of Israel as a state.

The Talmud (in Ketobut 110b) contains a legend that when Israel went into exile, God imposed three oaths upon the world: (1) Jews vowed not to return to Israel en masse and with a "strong hand" (i.e., violently); (2) Jews vowed not to rebel against the nations of the world; and (3) in return, the nations vowed not to persecute Jews too harshly.

This story is one Rabbi's opinion, and is recounted as a legend, not as law. It's not picked up by the later Rabbinic codifiers, such as Maimonidies and R. Yosef Karo. But Neturei Karta and some insane Haredi sects interpret it as binding law that forbids Zionism.

Religious Zionists respond, correctly: (1) this is a dubious story from one Rabbi; (2) unlike at Sinai, neither the Jews nor the nations of the world ever accepted these "vows"; (3) even if these "vows" occurred, the nations of the world broke their vow by murdering millions of Jews, absolving the Jews of their vows; (4) the supposed "vows" only prevent a military invasion of Israel, not peaceful mass immigration -- as Zionism was; (5) the League of Nations recognized the right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel in 1922, therefore, Zionism was done with permission of the nations, not in rebellion against them. Finally, and most importantly, according to the Talmudic story these three oaths are only in effect until the appointed time has come. Given Israel's remarkable achievements, it's clear that the appointed time came with the birth of Zionism. If you want more proof, just look at what happened to most anti-Zionist Jews (who lived primarily in Poland, Lithuania and the Ukraine).

47 posted on 05/04/2010 6:49:34 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (Hell exists, it is real. It's a quiet green meadow populated entirely by Arab goat herders.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

FYI . . . check out my reply at #46.


48 posted on 05/04/2010 6:52:33 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (Hell exists, it is real. It's a quiet green meadow populated entirely by Arab goat herders.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Err.. . . I meant #47.


49 posted on 05/04/2010 6:53:02 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew (Hell exists, it is real. It's a quiet green meadow populated entirely by Arab goat herders.)
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To: ChicagoHebrew

I wasn’t aware of that legend. I’ll have to do some reading up on it. Thanks!


50 posted on 05/04/2010 6:58:38 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (?)
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