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The New Old German Problem
Pajamas Media ^ | May 22, 2010 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 05/22/2010 2:10:42 PM PDT by decimon

Reflections on Germany

(Munich) I’ve been walking the last two days through Munich. Much of the city core was bombed out by the allies by spring 1945. Yet today there is little evidence of such destruction. The museums are among the best in the world, the streets and parks spotless, the infrastructure superb, and the people as hard at work as ever. To walk an urban street in Germany is a different experience from say in Athens or Istanbul—traffic follows law, pedestrians are respected, horns are used rarely, trash is absent. In other words, things work and work well.

Such observations sound stereotypical these days, but to even the casual observer the difference between life in Germany and much of eastern and southern Mediterranean seems far greater than the divide between a Minnesota and Mississippi. For someone who has lived in Greece and occasionally visits Germany, it becomes increasingly clearer each year why the European Union won’t work. Germans work and create wealth. Yet under the present system, they do not receive commensurate psychological rewards—and increasingly insufficient material compensation as well.

And history shows us that an unhappy Germany is a very dangerous thing indeed.

(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: europe; german; germany; munich; problem; reflections; vdh; victordavishanson

1 posted on 05/22/2010 2:10:42 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon
Welll, Hanson's fear that there might soon be a German Problem again could have an up side if Germany were to step up and stop the Islamization of the core of Europe.
2 posted on 05/22/2010 2:23:04 PM PDT by Truth29
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To: decimon
seems far greater than the divide between a Minnesota and Mississippi.

He is being a little hard on Minnesota here, it's a liberal arctic tundra but at least it has good summer weather.

3 posted on 05/22/2010 2:24:40 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
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To: decimon
And history shows us that an unhappy Germany is a very dangerous thing indeed.

Boy howdy!

4 posted on 05/22/2010 2:25:07 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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I hope the Germans don’t bomb Pearl Harbor again


5 posted on 05/22/2010 2:33:39 PM PDT by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ...In the US the number is 54%)
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To: Truth29

I have often wondered what would happen if Germany — and perhaps other European countries — were to open up the camps and herd Muslims into them, and then fire up the crematoria. What the US do anything? Personally, I would be strongly isolationist in this case.


6 posted on 05/22/2010 2:34:03 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: decimon

A commenter made a good point: The Germans have been pacified into girly men; they are old and don’t the stomach for conquest.


7 posted on 05/22/2010 2:44:54 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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To: Jeff Chandler

have


8 posted on 05/22/2010 2:45:14 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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To: decimon

Very soon German workers are going to grasp that all the financial reserves they piled away the last two decades from not doing what a Spain or Italy did are essentially gone. Someone in Munich worked 40 hours a week until age 67 for someone in Athens not to — and for someone in Athens to demand that someone in Munich do so or else


Yeah. It amazes me that the Greek response to their financial problems was to riot. Riot against who? They caused the problem with the excess entitlements. And now they are rioting so that the rest of Europe will bail them out so that they can continue their lavish lifestyle? Even a blind man can see that the EU is doomed. Pretty soon, even the Germans aren’t going to follow orders and support this mess. Any why should they?

We have the same situation here. And, eventually, even political correctness won’t be enough to keep the real taxpayers from revolting.


9 posted on 05/22/2010 2:49:42 PM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: dsrtsage

“I hope the Germans don’t bomb Pearl Harbor again”

I take it that we should forget that remark because you’re rolling? (Just kidding).


10 posted on 05/22/2010 2:51:01 PM PDT by happyathome
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To: decimon

My dad fought in the European theater and one of his most memorable quotes was , “ they should have left the Germans in France, they would have cleaned it up!”


11 posted on 05/22/2010 2:52:18 PM PDT by Renegade ("Bring it on while I still don't need glasses to shoot your eye out ")
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To: decimon

Stephen Ambrose wrote that he was surprised to find out that the veteran GIs in Europe right after the war said they liked the Germans the best. They turned to and starting cleaning up their bombed out cities while Italians tried to steal everything that wasn’y nailed down and the French just sat on their butts and complained.


12 posted on 05/22/2010 2:52:46 PM PDT by Oatka ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." –Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: Jeff Chandler

“The Germans have been pacified into girly men”

Good point. Thinking about it in geopolitical terms, the Germans and other northern europeans should realize that they have to stay engaged in the Mediterranean region out of self interest. If they carve out a new, shrunken EU and abandon the southern tier, those abandoned nations are going to succumb to massive migration/invasion from north africa, and pretty soon the northern europeans will be facing a tidal wave on their own borders. They should make their defense on the beaches, not the Alps - better to fight the fight on Italian territory or in the Balkans than wait until the tidal wave hits Bavaria.


13 posted on 05/22/2010 2:55:03 PM PDT by happyathome
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To: Jeff Chandler
A commenter made a good point: The Germans have been pacified into girly men; they are old and don’t the stomach for conquest.

There weren't any comments when I first posted but they now may become a good discussion.

My crystal ball is too cloudy to know if German demographics will proceed as now or if it matters. The German military was so successful in WWII because it fought a new kind of war. It could again.

14 posted on 05/22/2010 2:56:05 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Jeff Chandler
A commenter made a good point: The Germans have been pacified into girly men; they are old and don’t the stomach for conquest.

In his book Germany and the East-West Crisis (New York: McKay, 1959)Willi Schlamm observed that such an attitude was already taking hold among the German equivalent of the Baby Boomers during the 1950's.

15 posted on 05/22/2010 2:57:24 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Fiji Hill



16 posted on 05/22/2010 3:00:37 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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To: Jeff Chandler
The Germans have been pacified into girly men; they are old and don’t the stomach for conquest.

Don't overload your rowboat a$$. You have no idea what we're capable of.

17 posted on 05/22/2010 3:11:41 PM PDT by FW190
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To: FW190
Don't overload your rowboat a$$.

LOL! What the heck does that mean, Dieter?

18 posted on 05/22/2010 3:16:37 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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To: FW190

19 posted on 05/22/2010 3:18:00 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Jeff Chandler

20 posted on 05/22/2010 3:24:10 PM PDT by Hillbillary (I know how to deal with Communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: Hillbillary

Ferrry intairestink, but dumm.


21 posted on 05/22/2010 3:25:23 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Judas Iscariot - the first social justice advocate. John 12:3-6)
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To: Renegade

That’s weird! Because I heard something in a similiar vein from an American family who had lived in Europe during the 50s.

They said Germany was neat, organized and working hard: that you saw little in the way of damage left from the last war. Whereas, France still hadn’t picked up, gotten itself together, and lots of buildings still showed damage from the last war.


22 posted on 05/22/2010 3:31:15 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO Foreign Nationals as our President!!)
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To: decimon

I’m not certain Russia’s collapse is such a certainty as VDH would suggest. I’m convinced Putin desires very much to create a new axis in Europe as he has been blowing kisses Germany’s way for some time now and they’re not the basket case they were 15 years ago. I know the demographics of both aren’t that great but I think it would be foolish to underestimate Putin especially given the tack we’ve recently taken with zer0 at the helm.


23 posted on 05/22/2010 3:41:26 PM PDT by bereanway (Sarah get your gun)
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To: decimon
And history shows us that an unhappy Germany is a very dangerous thing indeed.

And why is that Hanson? Because Germans are genetically predisposed to be dangerous when they are "unhappy"? Any other group you care to mention who has this trait?

24 posted on 05/22/2010 3:44:01 PM PDT by Brugmansian
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To: dsrtsage

Animal House Reference!


25 posted on 05/22/2010 3:54:15 PM PDT by crazydad (What)
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To: decimon
So cash-flush German banks loaned the European poorer nations easy money to buy all things German. The EU would both guarantee the debts, and reap the benefits at large — as Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Spain would begin to see their infrastructure and lifestyles match those of France, Germany and the Netherlands.

Isn't that what China did with us? Loaned us money so we could buy their goods - while we shipped our jobs to them?

26 posted on 05/22/2010 3:57:03 PM PDT by GOPJ (...man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth-Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: crazydad

Shhhhh!, he’s on a roll.


27 posted on 05/22/2010 3:57:46 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Brugmansian
And why is that Hanson? Because Germans are genetically predisposed to be dangerous when they are "unhappy"?

Ummm, Germany's earned their reputation... the good one and the bad.

28 posted on 05/22/2010 4:02:18 PM PDT by GOPJ (...man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth-Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: Paladin2

Thanks, I saved the pic for my collection.


29 posted on 05/22/2010 4:03:47 PM PDT by FW190
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To: FW190

I was wondering if the model number was the jet powered flying wing, so I looked it up and found that pic (@ wikipedia).


30 posted on 05/22/2010 4:15:00 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Beautiful Plane.. Although the Mustang Whooped most of them out of the sky!


31 posted on 05/22/2010 4:35:37 PM PDT by crazydad (What)
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To: Paladin2

Wasn’t the flying wing the Horton something?


32 posted on 05/22/2010 4:36:42 PM PDT by crazydad (What)
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To: FW190

http://www.mszu.de/
No argument here.


33 posted on 05/22/2010 4:49:05 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: decimon

bump


34 posted on 05/23/2010 7:14:47 AM PDT by GOPJ (...man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth-Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: Renegade

I understand that East Germany was the exception, however. Some war damage was still there after reunification.


35 posted on 05/23/2010 7:20:33 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: decimon

Notice VDH is now hanging in the editorial sidebar of News/Activism, not Bloggers & Personal.

Some blogs are blogs, and others are real, solid commentary. Thanks for posting this one.


36 posted on 05/23/2010 9:43:30 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: decimon

I sure don’t comprehend Hanson’s worrying about a revival of German military aggression.

Their problem now is for Germany to avoid having to permanently support certain irresponsible European Union members. If they don’t think the Greeks will repay them, or that they will ultimately be expected to bail out the PIIGS, it is logical to expect that the Germans will “vent their anger” by getting out of the European Union and revive their own currency, so that the can engage in mutually beneficial trade with other productive countries.

The division of Germany and the Versailles treaty are ancient history, and Germany is no longer has an exploding population. So why would they want to occupy Alsace-Lorraine or grab territory in Eastern Europe?


37 posted on 05/23/2010 11:16:46 PM PDT by haroldeveryman
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To: dsrtsage

He ain’t kidding about traffic laws. I made the mistake of dashing across a rainy empty street in Munich a week ago and being spotted by a cop....


38 posted on 05/24/2010 3:45:40 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: rbg81

No no no. The Greeks have convinced themselves this is all Germany’s fault for stealing their gold in WW2, and America’s fault for cheating them now with slick banking tricks. It’s not THEIR fault. No way....


39 posted on 05/24/2010 3:52:00 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: Brugmansian

We can get kind of testy when we're mad...
40 posted on 05/24/2010 3:56:35 AM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: Jeff Chandler

“LOL! What the heck does that mean, Dieter?”
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Just guessing but maybe it means the same as what we used to hear a lot in Carolina back in the sixties and seventies, “Don’t let your Mockingbird mouth overload your Hummingbird ass”.


41 posted on 05/24/2010 5:25:28 AM PDT by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: RipSawyer
"Just guessing but maybe it means the same as what we used to hear a lot in Carolina back in the sixties and seventies, “Don’t let your Mockingbird mouth overload your Hummingbird ass”."

Finally, the man w/a brain.....I salute ya.

42 posted on 05/24/2010 9:02:29 AM PDT by FW190
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...
Thanks decimon, and thanks neverdem for the link.
For someone who has lived in Greece and occasionally visits Germany, it becomes increasingly clearer each year why the European Union won't work. Germans work and create wealth. Yet under the present system, they do not receive commensurate psychological rewards -- and increasingly insufficient material compensation as well. And history shows us that an unhappy Germany is a very dangerous thing indeed.

43 posted on 05/24/2010 4:28:49 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Look what happened when the Serbs were accused of doing just that.


44 posted on 05/24/2010 7:24:43 PM PDT by drew
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To: ClearCase_guy
...what would happen if Germany ... were to open up the camps and herd Muslims into them, and then fire up the crematoria. What the US do anything?...

Don't forget that The Won is, if not a closet Muslim, certainly a Muslim sympathizer.

45 posted on 05/25/2010 2:55:59 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: decimon
"In other words, in such a vacuum, very soon, if we are not careful, we are going to have a German problem — again."

I'm not convinced a newly awakened, strong and nuclear Germany is necessarily a problem for the US.

46 posted on 05/25/2010 3:21:51 PM PDT by Mariner (The first Presidential candidate to call for deportation, wins.)
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