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Obama Administration Backs Vatican In Pedophile Case
Breitbart ^ | 5/25/2010 | Staff

Posted on 05/25/2010 7:49:32 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

The Obama administration in a brief to the Supreme Court has backed the Vatican's claim of immunity from lawsuits arising from cases of sexual abuse by priests in the United States.

The Supreme Court is considering an appeal by the Vatican of an appellate court ruling that lifted its immunity in the case of an alleged pedophile priest from Oregon.

In a filing on Friday, the solicitor generla's office argued that the Ninth Circuit court of appeals erred in allowing the lawsuit brought by a man who claims he was sexually abused in the 1960's by the Oregon priest.

The unnamed plaintiff, who cited the Holy See and several other parties and defendants, argued the Vatican should be held responsible for transferring the priest to Oregon and letting him serve there despite previous accusations he had abused children in Chicago and Ireland.

The solicitor general's office, which defends the position of president Obama's administration before the Supreme Court, said the Ninth Circuit improperly found the case to be an exception to the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, a 1976 federal law that sets limits on when other countries can face lawsuits in US courts.

"Although the decision does not conflict with any decision of another court of appeals, the court may wish to grant the petition, vacate the judgment of the court of appeals and remand to that court for further consideration."

... the Vatican plans to argue that Catholic Dioceses are run as seperate entities from the Holy See, and that the only authority that the Pontiff has over bishops around the world is a religious one...

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: bho44; catholic; democrats; diplomacy; elenakagan; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; impeachobama; kagan; obama; oregon; romancatholicism; solicitorgeneral; vatican
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What is going on here? Is Obama trying to get Catholic votes, given how low he is sinking in the polls?
1 posted on 05/25/2010 7:49:33 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: All

What say you?


2 posted on 05/25/2010 7:51:16 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

This has nothing to do with religion or domestic politics.


3 posted on 05/25/2010 7:51:31 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law

LOL. Go ahead and tell yourself that.


4 posted on 05/25/2010 7:52:36 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Natural Law

Do you support Obama on this?

Does anyone here support the Obama administration on this?


5 posted on 05/25/2010 7:53:27 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Maybe some of his buds are implicated


6 posted on 05/25/2010 7:54:59 PM PDT by Tribune7 (It is immoral to claim the tea parties to be racist)
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To: Tribune7

Maybe...


7 posted on 05/25/2010 7:56:14 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Obama would love nothing more than to throw the Vatican to the trial lawyer wolves, but his legal advisors are trying to avoid a precedent that might come back on Obama and company tenfold.


8 posted on 05/25/2010 7:57:26 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: Natural Law

The United States is protecting the sovereign immunity of another country in order to protect that of its own. If the Vatican can be sued on these grounds then an international precedent would be established that would allow the United States to be sued for its actions and those of its personnel over seas.


9 posted on 05/25/2010 7:58:35 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Loyalist

Maybe...

This is what gets me...Liberals are furious over this, but some conservatives wonder if Obama is trying to get Catholic votes.

Perhaps they might be trying to avoid a precedent...

Only problem is, have there been any bishops in the U.S. that have been personally expelled by the Vatican - either by Pope John Paul II or by Pope Benedict XVI?

If so, that might present some problems for the Vatican...

If the Vatican has the power to expel a bishop, then wouldn’t they have the power to keep a bishop from being installed?


10 posted on 05/25/2010 8:03:42 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Then Obama is agreeing with the Vatican that It is a foreign nation.


11 posted on 05/25/2010 8:04:15 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Liberals are right. The AZ situation is like Nazi Germany. Mexico is Germany and Arizona is Poland)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"Do you support Obama on this?"

I support the rule of law on this. From a canonical point of view, which the state has no constitutional authority to regulate, a bishop derives his ecclesial authority through Apostolic Succession from his ordination, which goes back to the St. Peter, not just to the current Pope. Each Bishop has full responsibility in his own diocese.

From a secular, organizational perspective, the Bishop isn't paid by the Pope or the Vatican and the property and assets of each Diocese isn't owned by the Pope or the Vatican.

12 posted on 05/25/2010 8:09:13 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Petrosius

Even so, this case deals with instances where it is being argued that the Vatican was acting with knowledge.

In cases of accident or someone acting without knowledge or acting in ignoreance I don’t see how this would set precedent.


13 posted on 05/25/2010 8:09:17 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Does anyone here support the Obama administration on this?

Hell yeah. That the law is obvious is but one reason.

14 posted on 05/25/2010 8:11:18 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Natural Law

The canonical point of view and the rule of law are seperate things. The Vatican itself here says that it does not possess temporal power.

The Vatican says that dioceses are run as sepeerate entities.

If there have been any Bishops that the Vatican has expelled, then that undermines the argument that the diocese is run locally.

If the Vatican can expel a Bishop, then they would have the power to keep a Bishop from coming from Ireland to the US.


15 posted on 05/25/2010 8:18:08 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: D-fendr

Read #13.


16 posted on 05/25/2010 8:18:47 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
I don't.

The “Vatican” has obviously known of, and has actively aided and abetted the sexual abuse of children by their own priests, internationally, for decades.

There is no way to sugar coat or possibly hide the facts, that an insidious evil rot has invaded the very highest levels of the Catholic Church.

I consign to eternal damnation all those involved.
I think God will agree with me.

17 posted on 05/25/2010 8:22:57 PM PDT by sarasmom (No incumbent re-elected, at any level of government office.(Period))
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; ...

The list, ping


18 posted on 05/25/2010 8:33:15 PM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"The solicitor general's office, which defends the position of President Barack Obama's administration before the Supreme Court, said the Ninth Circuit improperly found the case to be an exception to the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, a 1976 federal law that sets limits on when other countries can face lawsuits in US courts. "

Is the foreign nation Vatican in any way shape or form connected to R.C.?

19 posted on 05/25/2010 8:50:29 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Liberals are right. The AZ situation is like Nazi Germany. Mexico is Germany and Arizona is Poland)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
"The solicitor general's office, which defends the position of President Barack Obama's administration before the Supreme Court, said the Ninth Circuit improperly found the case to be an exception to the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, a 1976 federal law that sets limits on when other countries can face lawsuits in US courts. "

Is the foreign nation Vatican in any way shape or form connected to R.C.?

20 posted on 05/25/2010 8:50:30 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Liberals are right. The AZ situation is like Nazi Germany. Mexico is Germany and Arizona is Poland)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Read #13.

Read the first sentence of the article again.

21 posted on 05/25/2010 8:54:51 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, a 1976 federal law that sets limits on when other countries can face lawsuits in US courts”

PING


22 posted on 05/25/2010 8:58:13 PM PDT by japaneseghost
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Since priestly pedophilia is minuscule compared with that by teachers (or so I’ve read elsewhere), my guess is this is really about protecting his teacher union buddies ...


23 posted on 05/25/2010 9:10:47 PM PDT by sailor4321
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I don’t


24 posted on 05/25/2010 9:14:27 PM PDT by HollyB
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To: sailor4321

I’m not so sure sure about that. Most crimes of this nature were not reported. Reports are starting to surface, but we will never know the true number of lives that were destroyed due to these pedofiles in the church, schools, or wherever.


25 posted on 05/25/2010 9:22:12 PM PDT by HollyB
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To: D-fendr; All

Already did.

Now read and comprehend that the Vatican has backed itself into a wall.

The Vatican HAS expelled Bishops, priests, etc. Yet the Vatican wants to now say that dioceses are run independently.

They can’t have it both ways.

If the Vatican can expel Bishops, priests, etc, and they have, then they can also stop a priest who was accused of sexual abuse in Ireland from coming to Oregon.

That is the heart of the matter here. If The Vatican knew that he was sexually abusing in Ireland then they could and should have kept him from coming to Oregon.


26 posted on 05/25/2010 9:33:08 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

No, the heart of the legal matter, is as noted in the first sentence, immunity.


27 posted on 05/25/2010 9:35:44 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Natural Law
"This has nothing to do with religion or domestic politics."

Yeah, right.

28 posted on 05/25/2010 9:38:11 PM PDT by Mariner (The first Presidential candidate to call for deportation, wins.)
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To: sailor4321; HollyB
I seriously doubt that molestation by teachers is a larger societal problem than sexual assault by priests. For one thing, the occasions of opportunity are far fewer. That said, these priests are NOT for the most part pedophiles AT ALL. They are simply homos.

Pedophilia refers to sex with prepubescent children. Most of these cases involve adolescents. The priests are what used to be referred to in gay circles as "chicken hawks:" men who pray on young men or adolescents. And by the way, please do note how this is always referred to as "pedophilia" in the lamestream media. Can't have people thinking this is just plain homosexual rape/assault. That would vindicate the BSA.

29 posted on 05/25/2010 10:01:29 PM PDT by FredZarguna (They're not pedophiles. Look it up.)
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To: japaneseghost

“Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, a 1976 federal law that sets limits on when other countries can face lawsuits in US courts”

Are they a state or a religion. It seems to me if you act in both arenas then one can and one can’t face a lawsuit. If the Pope wears both hats he can be sued. Separation of Church and State seems better to me each message I read.


30 posted on 05/25/2010 10:03:27 PM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We are an Oligarchy now and worse if we fail. TeaParty On...)
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To: A Strict Constructionist
Separation of Church and State seems better to me

That has become the foundation of a main liberal argument; however it's moot as regards the US law on foreign heads of state, etc.

31 posted on 05/25/2010 10:22:48 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: FredZarguna

I don’t agree, but I do hope there is reserved place in hell for anyone who uses their position to prey upon any child for sexual gratification, regardless of their sexual orientation. Teachers and priests both took an oath to serve and I would hope protet the community. I still believe that children within the church would be much more reluctant to come forward than kids at school. The student victims are many times teens as well and they are very vulnerable as well and it is quite illegal. How about if I use the term child sex offenders to better describe all of the creeps who prey on kids under 18 y/o.


32 posted on 05/25/2010 10:31:49 PM PDT by HollyB
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To: D-fendr; All

Which is why I said that there should be no immunity for the Vatican if the Vatican knowingly lets accused priests come to the US (like Oregon) from foreign countries (like Ireland).

The key is knowingly. Ignorance is another matter.

There needs to be some immunity for foreign powers and that would be tanatmount to keeping it for the US, too - but no immunity for any foreign power for knowingly enabling.

BTW, the solicitor general that is defending the Vatican here is Elena KAGAN.

Remember her?


33 posted on 05/25/2010 10:51:39 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You seem not to understand the legal meaning of immunity. Either for the US or Foreign Powers.


34 posted on 05/25/2010 10:53:22 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom

ping


35 posted on 05/25/2010 11:22:27 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (Merda taurorum animas conturbit......)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; wmfights; TSgt; ...
Is Obama trying to get Catholic votes, given how low he is sinking in the polls?

It's payback since 54% of Roman Catholics voted this crumb-bum loser into office.

One crook hiding another one.

36 posted on 05/26/2010 12:22:10 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; HarleyD; wmfights; RnMomof7; metmom; ...
The Vatican says that dioceses are run as sepeerate entities.

If there have been any Bishops that the Vatican has expelled, then that undermines the argument that the diocese is run locally.

When it's convenient, the Vatican lies.

Pope Pius IX, Vatican Council, Session 4, Chapter 3, #9:

"So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema."

Apparently since Ratzinger denied this very notion we should conclude he has just anathematized himself.

37 posted on 05/26/2010 12:32:45 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

lol. Pitiful.


38 posted on 05/26/2010 12:33:53 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: TSgt

Meant to ping you to 37


39 posted on 05/26/2010 12:36:35 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: sailor4321
Since priestly pedophilia is minuscule compared with that by teachers (or so I’ve read elsewhere), my guess is this is really about protecting his teacher union buddies ...

lol. This has NOTHING to do with any teacher pedophiles (unless they are teachers from Iceland on a sabbatical in Peoria)

Yeesh. Any straw will do; just don't point a finger at the one man most responsible for the past 25 years of hiding pedophile priests in unsuspecting churches - pere Ratzinger.

40 posted on 05/26/2010 12:40:09 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

That was then, this is now, not official “official”, out of context,

I’m waiting for more explacuses.


41 posted on 05/26/2010 3:35:22 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
The Obama administration in a brief to the Supreme Court has backed the Vatican's claim of immunity from lawsuits arising from cases of sexual abuse by priests in the United States.

Great. So now if you want to molest kids, just become a priest and you won't have to worry about the legal ramifications of your actions.

And after seeing how the Vatican deals with these guys, it gives you a chance to travel, as you're transferred from parish to parish.

42 posted on 05/26/2010 5:29:23 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Natural Law; Laissez-faire capitalist

If someone committed a crime in this country, they shouldn’t be protected from the consequences of that crime based on religious affiliation.

Unless you’re suggesting that this kind of behavior falls under the free exercise of one’s religion in the First Amendment????

All you’re doing here is giving an open door invitation to pedophiles to become priests so they can practice their trade.


43 posted on 05/26/2010 5:33:40 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: D-fendr
Hell yeah. That the law is obvious is but one reason.

What law protects priests who molest children?

Are you Catholic?

44 posted on 05/26/2010 5:35:30 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Interesting that the Catholic church has to threaten people with hellfire for not believing their traditions of men.


45 posted on 05/26/2010 5:39:34 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: D-fendr

“That has become the foundation of a main liberal argument;”

The Vatican has been very liberal in their approach to child molesters, IMHO. As Monty Python said “nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition,” but essentially a response of there but for the grace of God go I is a little weak.

The Pope either has control or he doesn’t. Making foreign heads of state arguments brings him down to the level of a politician, unbecoming of a Prelate.


46 posted on 05/26/2010 8:43:46 AM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We are an Oligarchy now and worse if we fail. TeaParty On...)
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To: metmom
Suing the Church

May 26, 2010

Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.

In the organizational structure of the Catholic Church in America, the Province of Denver includes the dioceses of Pueblo and Colorado Springs in Colorado, the Diocese of Cheyenne in Wyoming, and the province’s metropolitan (or senior) see, the Archdiocese of Denver. That makes Denver’s bishop an archbishop. As that archbishop, I rarely see a year go by without at least two or three unhappy parishioners assuming I have the authority to “straighten out” their liturgists and principals and pastors or some other problem in their local parish—within the province but outside my own diocese.

They tend to get even more annoyed when they learn that I have neither the authority nor the foolishness to meddle in the life of a sister diocese. Nor will I intrude on the ministry of a brother bishop. The title archbishop does entail some rights and duties in the life of a province, but these are strictly limited.

In reality, each diocese is a separate, autonomous community of believers. Each bishop in a province is an equal. Each is a successor of the apostles. And each is the chief teaching and governing authority in his own local church. Of course, the bishop of Rome, who is also the pope, is uniquely different: He is first among brothers, and yet he also has real authority as pastor of the whole Church. But he is not a global CEO, and Catholic bishops are not—and never have been—his agents or employees.

It’s useful to remember this today as lawyers try ingeniously to draw the Vatican into America’s ongoing sex-abuse saga. In O’Bryan v. Holy See, currently being heard in the U.S. district court in Kentucky, plaintiffs’ attorneys are seeking to depose Vatican officials—including, potentially, the pope himself—to determine what they allegedly ignored or covered up about the handling of clergy sex-abuse cases by American bishops. The plaintiffs’ legal argument hinges on the premise that bishops are, in effect, Roman-controlled employees or officials.

That argument is not merely false in practice. It is also revolutionary in consequence. In effect, it would redefine the nature of the Church in a manner favorable to plaintiffs’ attorneys but alien to her actual structure and identity. To put it another way, plaintiffs’ attorneys want a federal court to tell the Church what she really is, whether she agrees or not, and then to penalize her for being what she isn’t.

Every bishop in the United States has a filial love for the Holy Father and a fraternal respect for his brother bishops. But these family-like words—filial, fraternal, brother—are not simply window dressing. They go to the heart of how the Catholic community understands and organizes itself—and, more important, to how the Church actually conducts herself, guided by her own theology and canon law.

The Church is much closer to a confederation of families than a modern corporation. And this has real, everyday results. In practice, the influence of the Holy See on the daily life of the Archdiocese of Denver is strong in matters of faith and morals. We’re deeply grateful for the leadership and wonderful teaching of the papacy. But in the operational decisions of our local Church, the Holy See’s influence is remote. In twenty-two years as a bishop, my problems have never included a controlling or intrusive Vatican.

We live in ironic times. Critics of the Catholic Church in the nineteenth century conjured up a monolithic Catholic Church, the better to frighten America’s Protestant masses. Today, when that Roman straw man is even less believable, they have revived the notion of the Catholic Church as a Vatican-controlled monolith, no matter how far that myth is from real Church life—but this time, the better to sue her.

Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. is the archbishop of Denver.

47 posted on 05/26/2010 9:20:57 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7; metmom; Quix
What is going on here? Is Obama trying to get Catholic votes, given how low he is sinking in the polls?

He's already got the ones he's going to get. And if he does what he'd need to do to get the rest, he'd lose the feminazi vote.

48 posted on 05/26/2010 9:25:04 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: A Strict Constructionist

Contrary to your humble opinion, Pope Benedict as worked very hard and accomplished a great deal against abuse. His and the Church’s efforts have been very effective.


49 posted on 05/26/2010 10:19:01 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: metmom

Your #43 and #44 (to me) seem to indicate a lack of reading of the article and the issues in it.


50 posted on 05/26/2010 10:22:05 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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