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To: Agamemnon
I believe Agamemnon of mythology was a prideful and ill-tempered man. In one Wikipedia article it's stated, "Agamemnon clearly has a stubborn streak that one can argue makes him extremely arrogant".

You sir are no FRiend of mine. Never in my 8 years as a FReeper has anyone been so arrogant and loathsome as to twist my words into pretzels and serve them up to others for his own self-aggrandizement. I truly hope that when you were done typing out your screed that you felt self-assured and wholly satisfied that you've debased someone whose first and only question was, "Has integration made society any better?"

This question was elicited based on the fourth paragraph of the article to which this thread speaks wherein the law forbidding blacks from buying homes in the author's neighborhood was quoted. For your edification, I'm including everything here to ensure that you don't twist my words:

Here’s part of a Virginia law passed in 1912: “The preservation of the public morals, public health and public order, in the cities and towns of this commonwealth is endangered by the residence of white and colored people in close proximity to one another.” Thus localities were empowered to create “segregation districts.” It was, unbelievably, a misdemeanor “for any colored person, not then residing in a district so defined and designated as a white district, to move into and occupy as a residence any building or portion thereof in such white district.”

I laid down my case by stating, "Forgive me if this sounds racist," for exactly your type of personality. Do you want me to come out and say that I'm racist? I think by the nature of my posts, one could clearly argue that I am, but let's take a quick look at the definition of racist. According to Merriam-Webster's online dictionary, racist is defined:

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

Being that FreeRepublic is like a home to me, a place where I come daily to discuss the issues of the day, I am oftentimes very free with my word usage. I am a graduate student in English, but I don't feel it necessary to make that point or to act haughty in speech to make my points. As such, my free and loose way of thinking and posting has oftentimes forced me to go back to observe what I've said and either reinforce the ideas or admit I misspoke.

Pride cometh before the fall, Agamemnon, and as I pointed out, your prideful and stubborn nature have revealed chinks in your armor. In your very first response to me you proceeded to deconstruct, debase, and ridicule my choice of words in using order, phylum, and genus to get a point across. Since you obviously understood biological science better than me, I ceded the point to you and admitted that I was simply using them for rhetorical flourish. That's all. But that wasn't good enough for you, was it?

As a matter of fact, you even has to go so far as to put on an aire of arrogance like a courtroom attorney on a sappy daytime soap and call me out, not as who I am nor to my direct address, but to numerous posters to whom I've been having conversations and by referring to me as "Poster." Ok, Agamemnon. You win. Is that what you wanted? I'm quite incensed that you wrote that I "post inexpertly and without giving much cogent thought to what [I] write before [I] hit the 'enter' button." Why does that bother me? Because it's completely untrue. I invite you to review my post history. While I may not share the same interests as you, I most certainly do not "post inexpertly," and I am very cognizant of my word use, diction, style, and voice when I write seeing as that is my field of expertise.

If there's anyone who's pretentious, it's you, Agamemnon. The nature of your online handle alone indicates that you see yourself as some great mythical commander who returned to Troy and was murdered. As such, my bow to you of admission of a lack of knowledge of biological science orders was not enough. You had to go one step further and drive the bamboo further into the beds of my fingernails to make some self-serving point that I'm apparently ignorant, imbecilic, uninformed, and overall racist. Enough about you though. I'm sure your ego is inflated to Hindenberg proportions now, so let me address your specifics about my posts.

I'm going to put aside my commentary on my use of biological orders since I already admitted to using them as simply rhetorical flourish. Since you are incapable of seeing points and seem fit to get into my choice of words, I'm going to reiterate a few points in order to get my response across to you.

Let me start by saying that I am 30 years old. I am white. I am a man. Following me so far? I wasn't alive during the civil rights era. I've always been fascinated by that period in our history, because blacks were subjugated for no reason other than their skin color. I've studied works by authors such as Joel Chandler Harris (a white man), Phyllis Wheatley (a black woman), and Frederick Douglass (a black man) to understand the history of black culture. Black culture is full of despair, but it is also filled with hope and stories of triumph over adversity. Frederick Douglass was taught to read by one of his owners, something strictly verboten (it means forbidden in German, in case you wanted to parse my words) at that time, and he grew to be an immensely influential author and intellectual in his time.

When I look at mid-century America, I see a period coming off of the high of victories in the European and Pacific battle theaters in WWII. We're fed the ideas and standards of white culture from that era in movies and books, but we don't see the goings on in black communities. This was by design. As previously pointed out, the Virginia Law of 1912 expressly forbade blacks from moving into areas that were designated as "white." Why is that? What was it in the minds of the men in those days that made them so fear blacks?

If you examine my other posts, not just those that feed your ego, you'll see that I've asked more questions and that I've even admitted that my family elders and even my parents, aunts, and uncles saw race as an "issue" to be avoided in discussion and in practice. When I introduced a black woman I was dating to them, the tension was palpable. In a way, (Warning: potential admission of racism) I was using Michelle as a stick with which to prod my elders into discussing this taboo matter. I was a rebellious young man who wanted answers from family on numerous things (i.e. I didn't know my father until I was almost 25), and I tended to abruptly throw the conversation into my realm instead of simply asking questions. I never got the answers. My family members deigned no reply. That silence, to me, is deafening (hint: that's another rhetorical flourish, Agamemnon, I use them a lot being a writer).

So here I am on FreeRepublic asking questions of my elders again. I try not to be provacative, but on occasion I will run into egotistical rhetoric ferrets such as you who find no greater pleasure than deconstructing and debasing a poster's arguments until they run off of the playground crying. Well, sir, I've done plenty of that in my day, but I have no intent on allowing you to verbally destroy me for your own amusement.

Where in the country do you live, sir? In my part of the world (west-central Florida), blacks DO live in parts of town that most white folks, myself included, avoid between the hours of 8 PM and 6 AM. They are the parts of town shown on the news in the mornings. They are the parts of town where one could go to "score" either drugs or sex. They are the parts of town from which the stereotypical media gets the idea that blacks are thugs and sluts. When a black family moves into my community, it is (Warning: another potential admission of racism) a novelty. I don't condescend to that family. I don't run to the neighbors and spread rumors. I walk up to them while they're unloading the UHaul and welcome them to the neighborhood. I offer my services as an IT specialist or as a tutor of English for their children. I do this, because I believe in the Golden Rule.

So let me ask you, Agamemnon, your highness and almighty, what would you do in that situation? Would you sit on your porch in a lawn chair with a cheap beer and grumble about how the "neighborhood is going to shit?" Would you go to the neighbors and spread vitriol about the families without giving them quarter? It seems you're fine picking apart my perceived racism; how about you? I will say this, (Warning: yet another potential admission of racism) when a black family comes into the neighborhood in which I live, goes to the church where I worship, shops at the grocer where I purchase my wares, or patronizes restaurants in my neck of the woods, I think to myself, "It's good to see that black families don't all think that 'whitey' wants to do them harm."

However, when I commute to work through the "black" parts of town, I keep my windows rolled up, my doors locked, and my eyes forward. I do this because I've lived in this part of town. My home was burglarized when I lived here. My car was stolen back in 2004 and found in this part of town. My best friend was drugged at a club, kidnapped, raped, and left in a thicket of grass in this part of town. I was bussed into this part of town for high school in the name of "racial balancing," and I lost out of several days of school when the members of this "community" rioted and my mother kept me home. I've been here. I've seen what goes on. You never see a balding white man in a suit in this part of town. You don't see Hispanic men mowing yards in this part of town. You only see black men and women in this part of town, and, by association, the crime that goes with it.

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, "In 1997, 9% of the black population in the U.S. was under some form of correctional supervision compared to 2% of the white population and over 1% of other races." By now, I'm sure that number is up to 10% or higher. So let me ask you, Oh Great Agamemnon, by that statistic alone, is it safe to assume that in a group of 10 black men on the street, at least one of them might commit a crime and potentially against you? That is a statistic, sir, and while they can be trumped up, this is numerical fact, not conjecture. Having been the victim of violent crime (armed robbery) and the victim of property crime where the offender was black, I believe I have a warranted position from which to argue that colorblindness is IMPOSSIBLE.

Now let me address your debasing of my colorblindness argument. History is full of examples of great black men and great black leaders. Douglass, MLK, Sowell all represent the greatness of the black community. People in the media and racially biased white folks only see that these men were black and don't care much to study their words. When you bring up the Concord bridge story, you're not saying anything that I don't already agree with. You are, however, bastardizing what I meant by "fundamental differences." So, for the purpose of your ego, allow me to expand on what I mean.

First, skin color. A black man has more melanin, thus he's darker complected. Fundamental difference. Second, features. Black men and women have dark curly hair, often have issues with dryness to their skin (ashiness), have dark eyes. Fundamental differences. Third, social distinctions. Many black families are heavily extended. They often live in tight knit social groups together with elders (grandparents), aunts and uncles, cousins, and friends. These bonds of social cohesion extend into the churches and communities. There are myriad black communities in this nation with successful, well off members, but what happens when a black man or woman "hits it big?" They move to the suburbs. Tiger Woods? Beyoncé? Ice T? Redman? Method Man? Whitney Houston? Where do all of these well-to-do blacks live? Oh, that's right, they live in gated communities surrounded, statistically, by white families. Again... fundamental difference in social cohesion.

I was raised by a single mother to excel in life, to pursue my passions and hold on to my dreams. She worked three jobs to keep a roof over our heads and food on our plates to ensure that we didn't become reprobates. My mother was an anomaly in a time when single-motherhood was considered a social and educational death knell for the children. We didn't have the large social community that many blacks do, and we succeeded. Why does the black community seemingly cast aside success as a scarlet letter? Why is graduating from high school and going to college seen as some omen of "becoming white?" Why aren't the black communities in our country standing up to the MTV and the negative stereotypes portrayed in the media?

Being colorblind means seeing past color, Agamemnon. It means that we turn off the blackness or brownness or yellowness or whiteness and we see only people. That was the dream of MLK. He wanted us to judge people on the content of their character. He wanted us to shake our neighbor's hand, welcome them to the community, and get to know them. When I walked up to my neighbor and shook his hand, I didn't see a black man. I saw a family moving into the neighborhood. I saw a guy to play cards with, barbecue with, go fishing with, drink with. I saw a family who seized the American dream and followed what they thought would provide the best atmosphere for success for themselves and their kids. What about the folks in section 8 housing? (As an aside, I use the word folks all the time. It's quite asinine and very telling of you to bold that as if I was being condescending.) What's stopping them from aspiring to be better? We've given blacks everything. They have affirmative action, scholarships (do you know how hard is it to find a scholarship as a white man?), community outreach programs, government services, and yet they're still relegated to the outskirts of town. Do you think they chose that lifestyle?

And there's the rub: they DID choose that lifestyle. The statistics don't lie, Agamemnon. Blacks are more likely to die due to violent crime. They're more likely to use and traffic illegal drugs. They're more likely to be part of a gang. They're more likely to had children out of wedlock. They're more likely to be on government welfare. They're less likely to graduate from high school. They're less likely to even go to college. They're less likely to make it to retirement age. All of this because they chose a lifestyle. They choose to live like the media and popular culture portray them, like it some sort of duty to adhere to social memes. And then there are men like Douglass, MLK, Sowell, and my neighbor who decided to cast off the shackles of slavery, cast off the stereotypes, cast off the negative social connotations in lieu of a quiet, safe, secure, and successful life living among other people who wish the same for themselves and their families. It just so happens that those families are white and would openly and warmly welcome any black family who wishes the same for themselves.

This is drawing long in the tooth, and my fiancé is pleading that I discontinue this discourse; however, I will say this, Agamemnon: I am no racist. I don't see myself above ANYONE (again, see the definition of 'racism'). I've lived at the bottom of the barrel and learned how to be humble. I've understood what it means to "come from nothing." I can sit here and honestly say that it is possible to come from nothing and succeed in life, and if that's a lesson I could teach to every black boy and girl in this country, I would gladly preach it from every pulpit. The problem, as I see it, is that the "leadership" in these black communities profit more from subjugating their own people than from freeing them and allowing them to live successful lives. I am blind to color for impressions-sake, Agamemnon, but I am not a fool and will not be taken advantage of. If I'm in a bad part of town and a black man approaches me, I'm going to make the logical assumption that he's up to no good. Experience and statistics have taught me that he could be one in ten who has been or will be going to jail at some point. I refuse to be a victim. That doesn't make me a racist, sir, that makes me aware.

Warmest, sincerest, and most humble regards,

Ron

Works Cited

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agamemnon

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmlit1.html

http://www.radford.edu/~junnever/bw.htm

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/cpracept.cfm

59 posted on 05/30/2010 5:47:41 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia; delapaz; metmom
Being colorblind means seeing past color, Agamemnon. It means that we turn off the blackness or brownness or yellowness or whiteness and we see only people. That was the dream of MLK. He wanted us to judge people on the content of their character. He wanted us to shake our neighbor's hand, welcome them to the community, and get to know them.

And last time you said....

To be colorblind to race is to ignore fundamental differences in each other.

Poster digs hole still deeper. Statements manifest internal contradictions and the poster flails about in obvious confusion with a long-winded attempt to try to reconcile statements which are impossible to reconcile at their core.

So, first you said,...

Humans are animals like the rest of the orders, phyla, and geni on this planet. To be colorblind to race is to ignore fundamental differences in each other.

And here's what you now supposedly mean by it:

First, skin color. A black man has more melanin, thus he's darker complected. Fundamental difference.

Fundamental difference in what? Order, phyla, geni? Just so you know, you are arguing with a biochemist here, so make your case as convincing as you think you can. OK doofus, so what is it that causes some human beings to have more melanin than others -- their order, their phyla, or their geni? Oh and while you're at it can you name examples of phyla or orders that interbreed?

I'm going to put aside my commentary on my use of biological orders since I already admitted to using them as simply rhetorical flourish.

Yeah, because you were so busted when you tried to use terms with real meaning in biological science that you obviously don't understand to support your inherent shallownes. Idiot. Nope, not gonna let you off the hook. "Rhetorical flourish" you call it now? I call it BS.

Second, features. Black men and women have dark curly hair, often have issues with dryness to their skin (ashiness), have dark eyes. Fundamental differences.

Just "Black men and women..." exhibit these "Fundamental differences" right?

Never met any Italians, Greeks, Indians, Middle Easterners, Northern Europeans, Chinese, American Indians, Hispanics with any of those traits, or features have you?

Gonna have to crawl out from under that rock you live under and develop better refined powers of observation, unimpeded by bigotries borne of your painfully simplistic and intellectually flaccid penchant for what is merely banal stereotyping.

Third, social distinctions. Many black families are heavily extended. They often live in tight knit social groups together with elders (grandparents), aunts and uncles, cousins, and friends.

Right. Waaaaay different for "white" folk is it? "Black" skin color makes "Those people" that way does it? God forbid that any phenotypically "white" people would ever be accused of living in any manner which might suggest a "tight knit" group, or have any semblance of "extended family" whatsoever.

So that's all your proof for "Fundamental differences," is it?

Let's let you have at it: into what order, phyla, and geni do you put these "animals" -- or so you might call them?

Skin tonesSkin tones 2

"Yet with the effects of human migrations and cultural habits, people in one place can show tremendous variation in skin tone – like students from the Washington International Primary School.” ‘Unmasking Skin,’ Joel L. Swerdlow, National Geographic, Nov. 2002 p. 46-47.

So when are all these girls supposed to follow your "self-segregating" prescription there, Cooter?

OK next question to Mr. Shallowest of the Shallow, how about for these twin sisters? Where do you think they should "self-segregate" too -- over there to "these people," or over there to "those people"?

Twins Yep. "Fundamental differences." That's the ticket alright.(/sarcasm off)

When I introduced a black woman I was dating to them, the tension was palpable. In a way, (Warning: potential admission of racism) I was using Michelle as a stick with which to prod my elders into discussing this taboo matter.

You are just a shallow bigot who used a "girlfriend" as a prop to needle the family of bigots he grew up with -- possibly including your single mother -- whatever relevance that ever had to this discussion. By the way, this is FR not MySpace. I'll bet your "girlfriend" loved the fact that you used her like that too.

Kinda makes a reader wonder what kind of a stage prop you use your current "girlfriend" for.

Ok, Agamemnon. You win.

Sometimes all I have to do around here is just sit back watch my opponent checkmate himself.


62 posted on 05/31/2010 10:51:41 AM PDT by Agamemnon (Intelligent Design is to evolution what the Swift Boat Vets were to the Kerry campaign)
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