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Genetic testing raises an age-old question — are the Jews a people, or a religion?
NY Post ^ | June 13, 2010 | MAYRAV SAAR

Posted on 06/13/2010 3:38:27 AM PDT by Scanian

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To: gandalftb

Indistinguishable from Palestinians, that is.


41 posted on 06/13/2010 7:33:47 AM PDT by gandalftb (OK State: Go Cowboys)
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To: gandalftb

I don’t think that it was missed, it was expected and so not addressed. Then the discussion goes to legitimate heir vs non-legitimate heir, and now you know why the fight continues.


42 posted on 06/13/2010 7:37:28 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: gandalftb

Seems like the question of a homeland is based on shared unique history, language and culture. Palestinians lack these and are indistinguishable from other Arabs.

Druze and Bedouin have unique characteristics. Where’s their homeland?


43 posted on 06/13/2010 7:40:02 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Pharmboy

Yeah, maybe they could put up a section called “great Arab contributions to modern civilization.” That shouldn’t take up too much bandwidth.


44 posted on 06/13/2010 7:53:58 AM PDT by Scanian
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To: jjotto
Bedouins, by their nature are pastoralists, migrating hundreds of miles each year from the Arabian plain to Jordan and the throughout the Negev and Sinai.

When lines got drawn, they were left politically in the cold as they had few settlements.

Druze are from western Lebanon, northern Israel.

The entire problem of drawing lines and choosing "homelands" is that all of the indigenous groups of Palestine lived in clusters all mixed together for thousands of years. This study proves that Sabra Jews and Palestinians not only came from common stock, but have also inter-bred throughout history.

The only way to distinguish them is actually by religion, not by culture, language or history.

It is military-backed religion that is the core of each groups political goals.

45 posted on 06/13/2010 8:06:57 AM PDT by gandalftb (OK State: Go Cowboys)
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To: Scanian
Yep...that would be a good addition...

I was referring specifically to their pushing the allegation that Euro Jews (and their descendants) are really the Khazars who converted to Judaism and do NOT have middle eastern roots.

46 posted on 06/13/2010 8:11:01 AM PDT by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: jjotto

The term “Arab” is generally misunderstood. Bedouins are mostly Arab, not generally Palestinian, two separate groups. Iraqis are not Arab, many Kuwaitis are. It was the Hashemite Arabs that pushed all the way into Syria, militarily that left the Arab imprint on Palestine/Jordan.


47 posted on 06/13/2010 8:12:19 AM PDT by gandalftb (OK State: Go Cowboys)
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To: gandalftb

Uhhhh...no. The Sephardim and Ashkenazic Jews have been found (genetically) to be much closer than previously thought, but while the genes show Jews to be “cousins” to the Druze, Palies and Bedouins, they ARE distinguishable.


48 posted on 06/13/2010 8:13:47 AM PDT by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: Scanian
A few thousand years of a society preferentially breading with themselves and limiting the influence of outside genetic material will produce a genetically distinct group. Not necessarily a race, but definitely a unique ethnicity. Their religion seems to be the tie that binds.
49 posted on 06/13/2010 8:24:30 AM PDT by Dayman
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To: Pharmboy
Sephardim and Ashkenazic Jews are genetically related, but less so than Sabra Israeli Jews and Palestinians.

Real simple: the closer the geography, the closer the genetics. That whole "Birds of a feather, flocking together" thing.

I have a close friend that is Ashkenazic and she claims that dating/marrying Sephardim is very looked down on by them because of the perceived closeness of Sephardim to Arabs.

Druze and Bedouins, as I incompletely stated, are somewhat distinguishable from Sabra Jews, but not Palestinians.

50 posted on 06/13/2010 8:30:15 AM PDT by gandalftb (OK State: Go Cowboys)
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To: Pharmboy; Scanian; doug from upland; usmcobra; Cindy; G8 Diplomat; AdmSmith; Dog; nuconvert
Here is a compilation of the many genetic studies of Jews:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.html

My point is that I think we should honor the ethnic similarities of Palestine/Israel and perhaps recognizing a common ancestry could be the beginning of, if not assimilation, but at least political order within Palestine/Isreal.

51 posted on 06/13/2010 8:42:29 AM PDT by gandalftb (OK State: Go Cowboys)
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To: gandalftb
OK...I think I get what you're saying, but there is something else you should understand. Sabras are Israeli Jews who were born in Israel. Therefore, many of them were offspring of Euro Jews who emigrated to Israel. I think you mean middle eastern Jews (e.g., Iraqi, Iranians and Syrian Jews).
52 posted on 06/13/2010 8:45:20 AM PDT by Pharmboy (The Stone Age did not end because they ran out of stones...)
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To: Scanian
are the Jews a people, or a religion?

The question is not valid because it poses two choices and implies only one can be selected.

The Jews are a people and Judaism is a religion.

53 posted on 06/13/2010 9:17:35 AM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: Rocky
King David and Solomon lived around 1000 B.C.

Perhaps there is confusion between the ancient Hebrews and the Jewish people.

54 posted on 06/13/2010 9:22:45 AM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: Scanian

Jews people.

Judaism religion.

it ain’t complicated.


55 posted on 06/13/2010 9:27:27 AM PDT by wardaddy (I am not in favor of practical endorsements in primaries, endorse the conservative please)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
converts to Judaism

Judaism is a religion, not a people. Anyone who wishes can adopt or convert to Judaism.

56 posted on 06/13/2010 9:29:46 AM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: Scanian

I agree that Helen Thomas and all other anti-Semites can cram it, but I don’t believe that historical (or religious) reasons give anyone claim to land.


57 posted on 06/13/2010 9:56:18 AM PDT by TNdandelion
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To: nolongerademocrat
OK, fair point.

But what can't be overlooked is that what is being predicted in your citations is slaughter and earthly suffering for everyone and especially for Christians. I mean we are talking about the Apocalypse. When the Jews are singled out it is only because they are expected to survive and persevere as a people.

The idea that premillennials desire that Jews be slaughtered to bring forth the reign of God or that they feel this is some required judgement due to unrighteousness is neither accurate nor fair.

In most of your cites -- and most of the other things I've read -- Christians get it worse.

The end is supposed to be the final dying roar of evil, not its triumph.

Again to be fair I suppose there are pre millennials who think the rest of the world will escape the horrors but I always thought they were a fringe.

58 posted on 06/13/2010 9:56:25 AM PDT by Tribune7 (The Democrat Party is not a political organization but a religious cult.)
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To: Tribune7

You would be surprised. Personally, I don’t believe in Armageddon. It is amazing how many people think it is okay to tell us that they want us to die. You may have noticed an up-tick lately since Obama has been in office, many people who normally try to hide those feelings feel more inclined to express them openly.

I’m glad if you don’t share their beliefs. Unfortunately millions do, and many of those self-identify as Christians. Sometimes it is entertaining but mostly it is not. I’ll FReep mail you some links.


59 posted on 06/13/2010 10:11:20 AM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: jjotto

I am afraid you are right. The very thought terrifies me, and I am not Jewish. I am not a fundamentalist, either.

I can’t understand why the Jews are hated so. They have contributed so much throughout history. There is no reason for this!


60 posted on 06/13/2010 10:13:46 AM PDT by jacquej
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