Posted on 06/23/2010 6:27:30 AM PDT by shortstop
Would you agree that constant testing also shifts the emphasis from learning a subject onto simply knowing how to pass exams?
You seem to be making arguments for institutional education, rather than arguments for government education. There can be one without the other.
And I disagree with your contention that government education can be anything other than what we have. Government schools are an example of what all government programs naturally become. Look at the military, to take an example of an unquestionably legitimate government function that has, nonetheless, turned into a PC morass.
I agree with most on this thread who say public school is an institution which is currently in a failed state and this situation must be rectified to bring it in line with the constitution of our country and for the preservation of liberty.
I am a christian. My children are in public school. I disagree that any christian who cares about their children’s soul cannot in good conscious put them in public school.
Consider Jesus’ prayer in John 17:
verse 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
verse 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
If we are to raise children of light to carry the gospel further, we cannot isolate them from the place where the gospel should go. We must educate them on how to correctly identify light from darkness.
If the government would dump the taxes they confiscate from us, then we could pay for the education. But the whole tax system should be overhauled in that scenario.
I am all for homeschooling...but if you want “public” schools where groups of parents get together to educate their children, I am assuming that they group with like-minded people. Groups do have the advantage of offering more experience and more knowledge and freeing up some time. I loved the co op schools that I had my children in....the curricula is key but you have to know “HOW” to recognize the subtle brainwashing techniques of Skinner, et. al. and the secular ideas. We had to work in the classroom although this was a public school. Always a high adult/child ratio.
You are not a hard right winger if you support tax dollars being collected and spent for unconstitutional reasons. BTW something can be both tax payer funded and “Free Market”.
You seem to be describing charter schools. Those do work out sometimes, although there are constant issues about priorities and management. It's hard to get together a large group of people who are going to agree on something as fundamental as their children's education.
Abolish it. It will never be right as long as the government is involved.
Some things to consider -
If you put a white glove in a mud puddle, does the puddle get cleaner?
How good are you (an adult) at evangelizing in an institution (job) where you are surrounded by unbelievers?
In such a situation, are you surrounded by authority figures that constantly try to undermine YOUR faith?
Why throw your not fully trained children to the wolves?
I intend to “armor up” (Eph 6:10-20) my children, but I’m NOT going to put them out there to be influenced by the culture until that armor is fully forged.
AMEN Lurker! Also, Lonsberry doesn't appear to have a passing familiarity with the Communist Manifesto either (free gov't education is a biggie there).
Jesus was in an institution—the Roman Empire— when He brought the gospel to the world. Your argument is not with me, it is with the prayer of Jesus. Do you not believe that you can “armor up” your children in spite of the world around you? I believe I can because God through His word helps me to do so. Keep in mind, the disciples of Jesus were “babes” in affect to the new gospel they had received, and Jesus didn’t hesitate to send them out into the world armed with nothing more than His word and faith.
Your kids, your choice.
The stats don’t lie, though.
90+% chance they’ll be atheists or pagan spiritualists by the time they hit college.
Well, yes. Personally I'd rather see more privately funded schools, or government-funded private schools, than more homeschooling. I don't have any children, but I don't think I could afford the time or the money to homeschool, not in my current situation.
And I disagree with your contention that government education can be anything other than what we have.
Well I certainly hope you're wrong about that, because by implication that not only covers everything that any government says and does, but also everything any government is and can become, as you imply with your comments re the military morass.
Stats come from wordly institutions. Do you put your faith in them? My faith is in God and the promises I find in His word. I know with certainty that God will protect my children because they “walk in the light.”
Sadly I have to agree with you. We had to put our three kids in public high school out of financial necessity, after having them in Christian schools prior to that. I regret having to do it to this day.
Simply by attending children learn that the government has enormous police power to force their neighbor to pay for a service their parents want tuition-free. Well?...If government can force a neighbor to pay for single payer government ( socialist) schooling, why not a thousand other socialist wants and needs? Is a “duh” necessary?
Within one to three generations of single=payer, socialist=funded, government schools we had:
** the IRS
** Woodrow Wilson
** the federal reserve
** inflation of our dollar
** direct election of senators
** feminism
** unions
** usurpation of large tracts of land ( uncompensated) for federal parks
** the failed “one world” attempt with the League of Nations
** FDR and his New Deal
** the abominable U.N.
** Johnson's Great Society
** the abolishment of the gold standard.
** thousands of socialist programs, give aways, and offices
Our great grandparents, grandparents, and parents were comfortable with the above because they had be taught to be comfortable with socialism simply by attending single-payer, socialist-funded, government schools!!!
Dennis Prager is RIGHT!!! Our ancestors didn't teach us to be American because they themselves were never taught to be independent thinking Americans! While Prager lays the blame on John Dewey ( 100 years ago), I lay the blame on the socialist model itself. It began when the very first government school that opened in the mid-1800s.
Government schools are socialism in action. They are the very essence of single-payer government socialism. They can not be reformed. We must work to completely close them.
How?
Gradually introduce vouchers, tax credits, and charters to build a private base. Then move to make all government schools charter schools. Gradually, expect parents to take over the responsibility of paying for their own child's education with government assistance only to the poor. Gradually work toward complete separation of school and state. As schooling is privatized in this nation, every school dollars should be returned to the taxpayer!
“It began when the very first government school that opened in the mid-1800s.”
Government schools in the United States pre-date the mid-1800s. In fact, in the colony of Maryland, the governments of the counties were charged by law from the General Assembly, in the early 1700s, to build and maintain “free schools.” There is a remaining free school in my own neighborhood, built sometime between the 1720s and the 1740s.
sitetest
It is actually **more** work for the parent to afterschool and deprogram than it is to homeschool.
When I talk to parents who have academically successful children who are institutionalized for their schooling in every case ( without exception) these parents and kids are working at least as hard on afterschooling as I did as a homeschooling mom. These institutionalized kids are spending as much time on homework as my kids did all day in formal homeschooling.
My conclusion: Kids learn almost nothing in school. It is the parents and the kids themselves who are doing 99% of the work in afterschooling and "deprograming".
How is that relevant to the issue of whether homeschooling is a positive educational method for individuals or whether it produces good results in society?
by implication that not only covers everything that any government says and does, but also everything any government is and can become
Yes, it does. All government - or at least all governments observed in recorded history - have a universal tendency to greater oppressiveness and less utility. This is why *conservatism* wants to keep government out of as many areas of life as possible.
Cool! I love historic buildings.
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