Posted on 06/30/2010 9:26:42 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
I suspect that chronic fatigue is one of a number of related auto-immune problems associated with either a *lack* of parasites, or a problem with the intestinal flora.
The problem is that the human immune system has a relationship with both parasites and our intestinal flora, forming a triangle of interactivity. This is called “Helminthic Therapy”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy
For example, it has been learned that Crohn’s Disease responds very positively to pig whip worms, because the immune system can turn on itself in the absence of this class of worm. When worms of this class are introduced, the immune system normalizes.
Likewise, severe asthma can be very responsive to common hookworm.
Making matters far more interesting, the human intestinal flora, which is between 300-1000 different species of microorganisms, which varies considerably between people, is interactive with these parasites and very directly to the human immune system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestinal_flora
This is why looking at a complex syndrome like chronic fatigue as caused by just a single virus can be very misleading. The age of simple causes with simple solutions is behind us.
Thanks for the ping. Fascinating thread.
“I suspect that chronic fatigue is one of a number of related auto-immune problems associated with either a *lack* of parasites, or a problem with the intestinal flora.”
CFIDS agrees with you that this is important. One of its six currently funded research areas has to do with determining whether CFS folks have abnormal “intestinal microbiota.”
This is discussed in the Feb 18 powerpoint presentation here:
http://www.cfids.org/webinar/series2010-past.asp#2
It is not unfair to say that we, as in humans, are more microbe than man. But the little we know of what this entails is very interesting indeed.
When infants are born, it is about two weeks before their immune system is operational, and it is during that time that they develop the flora that will remain with them for much of their lives.
The flora significantly improves how we digest our food, but it can also inhibit our digestion, and physical development. The majority of the microorganisms are viruses, and the majority of those are bacteriophages, that infect both the helpful and harmful bacteria in our bodies.
The majority of the bacteria, 99%, out of an enormous field of bacteria, is limited to only 30 or 40 species, each vying with the others for space. The multiple antibiotic resistance staphylococcus is often one of these, and only becomes a problem when we take antibiotics that inhibit its competitors. Then it has a population explosion, and we develop a dangerous infection.
The important point is that we didn’t “catch” it from somewhere else—it was just waiting for an opportunity.
Parasites are likewise interactive with our flora, sometimes needing chemical markers from the right kind of bacteria to signal their eggs that it is time to hatch, for example.
And from there it gets positively odd. More advanced microorganisms, such as protozoa, are known for being able to make neurological changes in the brains of the animals they infect.
The protozoa that causes toxoplasmosis in many mammals, including humans, modifies the brains of mice and rats to be attracted to the urine of cats. That is, the protozoa makes them suicidal, so they will be eaten by a cat, and spread the protozoa to the cat.
While this has a profound effect on the brain of rodents, as many as 11 million Americans are infected with this protozoa. And the brain of a rodent is not that different from the brain of a human, relatively speaking. So what would it look like if a protozoa took over a human brain?
Importantly, this sort of thing is not unique to that particular protozoa. Other microorganisms can have equally profound effects on the behavior of higher animals. Including humans.
But we know little or nothing about this potential, scientifically.
It gets better. Our bodies are not limited to viruses, bacteria, fungi and protozoa. We even have arthropods living on us. Parasitic mites that mostly live in our eyelashes, called Demodex. Even larger are the body lice and even ticks that may have a strong interaction with our immune system.
BREAKING: CFIDS Scientific Director, Suzanne Vernon slams CDC study as apparently intentionally designed NOT to detect XMRV!
http://www.cfids.org/xmrv/070110study.asp
Suzanne D. Vernon, PhD
Scientific Director
The CFIDS Association of America
July 1, 2010
Researchers at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), along with collaborators in California and Germany, published a paper in the journal Retrovirology titled, “Absence of evidence of Xenotropic Murine Leukemia Virus-related virus infection in persons with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and healthy controls in the United States.” Blood samples from people with CFS, matched controls and 41 healthy blood donors were tested for antibodies to XMRV using a western blot assay and for XMRV DNA using a nested PCR assay. Three independent laboratories, including the retrovirus lab at CDC, Blood Systems Research Institute (BSRI) and the Robert Koch-Institute lab tested coded samples. There is no doubt of the technical competence of these laboratories to conduct these assays to detect XMRV antibodies and DNA. So why wasn’t XMRV detected?
If the rate of XMRV in the healthy blood supply is 0.1% (or 1 person out of 1000), then there is a slim chance of detecting XMRV DNA among 41 healthy blood donor samples. So, no surprise there.
What about the CFS cases and controls? First, I would like to make a request of all authors of scientific papers – please provide a table that describes the subject and sample cohort! Combing back and forth in a paper to figure out who is who and what is what is frustrating! From what I can decipher, the samples were drawn from 18 people identified through a Georgia registry who met criteria described in the paper that is different from 1994 international CFS criteria. Eleven CFS cases and matched controls were identified from the Wichita studies, although it is not clear if these samples came from the longitudinal studies or the clinical study, and 22 CFS cases and controls from the Georgia community-based study. There is little indication that these three cohorts are comparable in regard to CFS definition, as each cohort was selected using different definition. The authors strenuously object to application of the Canadian case definition in other studies, stating that, “physical findings in persons meeting the Canadian definition may signal the presence of a neurological condition considered exclusionary for CFS.” Yet the physical findings listed are those commonly experienced by CFS patients, and one (tender lymphadenopathy) is a case-defining symptom of the 1994 criteria.
Further, the samples from these three study cohorts were collected using different types of tubes, each of which has a distinct way of being processed. As if this weren’t bad enough, none of the blood tubes used were of the same type used in the Lombardi study. (They used tubes containing sodium heparin that are intended for use with virus isolation). The blood tubes from the 18 Georgia registry patients are designed to collect whole blood and preserve nucleic acid; it is not clear where the plasma came from for these subjects since plasma cannot be obtained using these blood tube types. So the explanation for not finding XMRV in these samples is simple – this was a study designed to not detect XMRV using a hodge-podge sample set.
Detecting XMRV is hard. Replication of the Science paper will be hard because of the exacting methods required and because of the heterogeneity and complexity of CFS. Regardless of the outcome of any single study, it is critical that a valid replication study be designed and implemented by multiple laboratories, using standard and optimized techniques and testing split samples collected appropriately from adequate numbers of well-characterized cases and controls. Studies such as this one from Switzer, et al., continue to absorb time, divert precious resources and fuel controversy instead of consensus.
http://hhv6.jottit.com/5._hhv-6_and_herv-k18
HHV-6A infection induces expression of HERV-K18-encoded superantigen
"The human endogenous retrovirus K-18 (HERV-K18) encodes a superantigen that causes deregulation of the immune system. This provirus is transcriptionally silent, but can be induced by Epstein–Barr virus (EBV) infection and IFN-α treatmen" --Albert K. Taia, Janos Lukab, Dharam Ablashic, Brigitte T. Huber
http://www.journalofclinicalvirology.com/article/S1386-6532%2809%2900194-2/abstract
As we have since the Lombardi study was published in October 2009, the CFIDS Association of America has actively promoted studies that seek to validate and confirm the association of XMRV in CFS. We are working with several investigators who have studies under way. Publication of study data in top-flight peer-reviewed journals is essential to advancing our understanding of the role that XMRV plays in CFS, and we are actively advocating for publication of the study conducted by NIH/FDA as swiftly as possible. The Lombardi paper was reported to be under review for five months at Science, and it’s important to recognize that top journals enforce tight requirements on their authors.
Last week’s unauthorized report about the NIH/FDA study by a news agency in the Netherlands disrupted steady progress being made toward publication of the data. In response to a report in the June 30, 2010 issue of the Wall Street Journal, Dr. Harvey Alter issued this statement last evening, transmitted via the NIH Office of Communications and Public Liaison: “Our paper has not yet been accepted for publication. My colleagues and I are conducting additional experiments to ensure that the data are accurate and complete. Our goal is not speed, but scientific accuracy.” According to John Burklow, director of the NIH Office of Communication and Public Liaison, these additional experiments were a condition of acceptance by the journal, Proceedings of the National Academies of Science USA (PNAS), and may take weeks to complete and review. Mr. Burklow is confident that the results will be published, and stated that all the collaborators are working expeditiously, but carefully, to ensure the accuracy of their results and the manuscript. The CFIDS Association has confirmed that additional reviewers for the paper were recruited as recently as two weeks ago.
The CDC’s paper published today in Retrovirology was submitted to the journal on March 26, 2010, and accepted and published on July 1 after undergoing final scientific review by CDC scientists. According to Joe Quimby, senior press officer at CDC, additional assessment was performed after the paper was originally submitted as part of CDC’s commitment to ensuring the accuracy and relevancy of the scientific information it reports. He noted that the paper published today is the same as the original submitted manuscript. No changes were made to the CDC paper authored by Dr. William Switzer, et al.
Thank you for the ping.
Thanx. I’ll check out those links.
So much great info. here. I’m going to save the link to this thread in my personal files for future reference.
Coincidentally today is a great day for me, and I did a lot of work! Am I finally cured? Of course, I’ve had days like this before, only to be disappointed later, but in any event I’m grateful for the day(s), and maybe this time it will stick.
I went to an alternative doctor, who is also a board certified M.D., and he gave me homeopathic antiviral meds - the first one he gave me didn’t work, but maybe this one is the answer (after taking it for around 5 months). He also gave me thyroid medication, which a test showed I needed, and other supplements. Here’s hoping.
bookmark
Thanks for the ping!
You’re Welcome, Alamo-Girl!
In the book, "Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia & Environmental Illness" (Burton Goldberg Editors), Dr. Douglass states that he firmly believes that what we are now seeing as chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, is the result of the polio vaccines! He states his belief that we have NOT eradicated polio, rather the polio virus is has mutated.
I have Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue, and I had the original Salk vaccine.
“I have Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue, and I had the original Salk vaccine.”
I also had the original Salk vaccine and have CFS.
Dr. Douglass and many others have had theories over the years about CFS and links either to polio vaccines or Post-Polio Syndrome from non-paralytic polio (90% of polio cases were too mild to cause paralysis but caused brain damage).
But there is no proof at all, so far, that polio is the cause of CFS.
Where we are now is that the prestigious journal Science has published a study establishing a link between CFS and a specific virus XMRV. XMRV virus extracted from CFS sufferers has been cultured and shown to be capable of infecting tissues in the lab.
We are currently in the twilight zone where we are awaiting a high quality replication of the study published in Science. WSJ has reported that an FDA-NIH study has confirmed the study in Science, but that some additional testing is being performed due to a conflicting CDC study that was based on a very small, clearly flawed sample and methodology. Dr. Reeves, one of the lead researchers for the CDC study is reviled in the CFS community as being a proponent of the “CFS is depression” model.
Unfortunately, there are entrenched pockets of researchers who are invested in theories for the cause of CFS that don't include XMRV and they are fighting a rear-guard action to derail any consensus that XMRV is the cause of CFS.
The UK NHS and the US insurance industry are desperate to prevent CFS to be found to be caused by a virus rather than a psychosomatic illness because they will be liable to pay medical benefits for disability and expensive retro-viral treatments that they currently don't have to pay for an illness that they claim is “all in the head” of the CFS sufferers.
Thanks for the ping.
Thanks for your reply. Most studies are ghost written and paid by BIG PHARMA. These studies are tweaked to suit the needed outcomes of BIG PHARMA. I believe Dr. Douglass’ opinion, which he does base on his own research findings, and not the PARTY LINE.
Big Pharma has corrupted many but certainly not ALL studies.
Currently scientists and insurance industry interests invested in making sure that CFS remains a mental health rather than a neuro-immune diagnosis have been corrupting studies in the UK and the US by designing the studies to fail to detect XMRV in ANY human subject. This corruption will fail, and science will prevail.
The first study linking XMRV to CFS was published in Science and reviewed and backed by NIH and the Cleveland Clinic in Oct 2009. The study was designed and funded by the Wittemore’s, a wealthy family whose precious daughter was severely stricken by CFS, not by Big Pharma.
The Wittemore’s established a private institute, the Wittemore Peterson Institute and hired top scientists to try to find the medical cause of CFS.
XMRV was first discovered only in 2006 in a segment of men with prostate cancer. Big Pharma had nothing to do with it. A scientist at Wittemore Peterson read the 2006 XMRV prostate study and recognized a deficiency in the blood of those men which had also been found in CFS patients and purely on a hunch designed a test to see if XMRV could also be found in CFS patients. They found XMRV initially in 67% of CFS patients and subsequent testing found XMRV in 95% of their CFS patients in the study.
The Wittemore Peterson press releases in the study is here:
http://www.wpinstitute.org/xmrv/docs/wpi_pressrel_100809.pdf
The full Science study is here:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1179052?ijkey=m3wzKT4yJqEyk&keytype=ref&siteid=sci
Now Big Pharma is getting extremely interested in XMRV as there could be big money in drug treatments, however it appears that existing HIV drugs on which the patents are expiring are likely to be effective on XMRV if it is linked to CFS.
Post-Polio Syndrome is real and probably far more widespread in Boomers than realized and may account for a significant percentage of Boomers with CFS, as Dr Bruno postulated.
“Parallels Between Post-Polio Fatigue and Chronic
Fatigue Syndrome: A Common Pathophysiology?”
http://www.cfids-cab.org/cfs-inform/Postpolio/bruno.etal98.txt
Today, CFS afflicts many young people who have never been exposed to polio, at least any detected polio.
Thanks for the links and the information. Have everyone check into “Evergreen.”
Right there with you. For most of my life I just thought I was lazy.
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