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To: wintertime
"Please read posts #74 and #75. "

I did. All horse manure.

"ALL education is filtered through either a godless or God-centered worldview. Neither worldveiw, godless or God-centered, is religiously neutral in content or consequences."

We're not talking "all education", we're talking about science, specifically biology. Like it or not, in biology, evolution is THE scientific explanation.

"The origins of the universe and man's appearance in it is taught to children and young adults has **enormous** religious consequences for the child and for all of society. Citizens rightfully resent having government establishing one religious worldview over another. It is a freedom of conscience issue."

As usual, like all biblical creationists, you change the subject from evolution in biology to "the origins of the universe and man's appearance in it". They are completely different things. Biblical creationists appear not to understand the differences between cosmological evolution, stellar evolution, planetary evolution, chemical evolution, and biological evolution, but mash them all together into "evil evolution" because the theories disagree with Genesis.

"Evolutionists are the biggest bullies when it comes to shoving godless, socialist-funded, **compulsory** government run and owned schooling down the taxpayers’s throat."

No, you're mistaking "evolutionists" with communists. The two groups are not the same. All the evolutionists I know of just want to see science taught in science classes. If you want to establish a compulsory "comparative religion" class and teach "creation science" and "intelligent design" there, I'm fine with that. But not in biology class.

"The creationists are far more tolerant and far more likely to support separation of school and state,( as well as complete separation of science and state) and willing to let evolutionist believe what they want.

Complete baloney. It isn't "evolutionists" pushing to have "intelligent design" taught as science...it is biblical literalist creationists.

83 posted on 08/21/2010 6:22:00 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
,As usual, like all biblical creationists, you change
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your reading skills must be deficient. I am an evolutionist. For the time being evolution seems to be the best theory to explain how man and other life forms came to exist on this earth and is not in conflict with the teaching of our family's denomination. Our children were taught evolution in our homeschool. It was, though, within the framework of a thoroughly God-centered worldview.

It is my observation that evolutionists are the biggest defenders of compulsory government schooling where evolution can then be thrust on unwilling families and their children.

While the creationists would be very happy to have complete separation of school and state, and let evolutionists teach what they want in their private schools.

There is only **ONE** reason why evolution is a hot button topic. GOVERNMENT! If there were complete separation of school and state, as well as science funding and state ( except for military defense research), the controversy would dissipate as quickly as dew on a hot summer's day. But evolutionist don't want to see that because many of them are freedom of conscience BULLIES!

84 posted on 08/21/2010 7:17:27 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
As usual, like all biblical creationists, you change the subject from evolution in biology to "the origins of the universe and man's appearance in it". They are completely different things. Biblical creationists appear not to understand the differences between cosmological evolution, stellar evolution, planetary evolution, chemical evolution, and biological evolution, but mash them all together into "evil evolution" because the theories disagree with Genesis.

The solution to every point you made it to get government out of the education business.

Why would you or evolutionist care what creationists taught their children about evolution if there were complete separation of school and state?

Tsk! tsk! You **ASSumed that I was a creationist. I am not. I taught evolution to my children within the framework of our religious worldview.

No, you're mistaking "evolutionists" with communists. The two groups are not the same. All the evolutionists I know of just want to see science taught in science classes. If you want to establish a compulsory "comparative religion" class and teach "creation science" and "intelligent design" there, I'm fine with that. But not in biology class.

If there is complete separation of school and state, the government can't compel any school to either teach or not teach evolution because they would own and run **NO** schools! Your kids would go to schools that support your educational and religious philosophy. Creationist and/or IDer would send their kids to schools that supports their worldview.

Complete baloney. It isn't "evolutionists" pushing to have "intelligent design" taught as science...it is biblical literalist creationists.

Again the solution is complete separation of school and state. Your kids would go to school chosen by you that best support your worldview toward the teaching of science. Creationists and IDers would create or find schools that would support their worldview.

I support vouchers, charters, and tax credits provided that they are a means to building a private school infrastructure, and they are gradually decreased so that eventually parents, themselves, and charities take on the full cost of educating our nation's children. In my state it would mean 60% cut in our state budget and a 60% cut in our county taxes!

We're not talking "all education", we're talking about science, specifically biology. Like it or not, in biology, evolution is THE scientific explanation.

**ALL** education can only be done in one of two ways: in a godless manner or a God-center one. **Neither** is religiously neutral in consequences or content. The school must choose one worldview or the other: godless or God-centered.

With godless or God-centered, yes, they likely share the vast bulk of information in common, the God-centered approach, though, would include some philosophic teachings from the leaders of the child's ( or young adult's) religious worldview.

For instance, I attended Catholic parochial schools, 1st through 10th grade and university. I was schooled in government school for 11th and 12th grade and graduate school for my profession. There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE deference between the philosophic approach between a religiously based education and a godless one.

In my Catholic education, at appropriate times, we were reminded that science and math reflected the glory of God's creation. Studying these subjects gave us a glimpse into the mind of God. It was our **duty** to learn as much about God's creation as possible and we were to use our knowledge to bless others. As scientists were introduced, we were given some instruction on how their religious outlook ( usually Christian) influenced their lives and work.

The **name** of our science building on my Catholic university was MENDEL hall!.. And... there was an enormous mosaic of this monk,Gregor, and other Catholic religious symbols, covering an entire wall in the front lobby. Imagine that! Can you imagine what God-centered lesson this Catholic university was trying to teach about science with that name and mosaic?

Again...It is impossible to have a religiously neutral education. That includes science education as well.

107 posted on 08/23/2010 6:26:45 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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