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Obama's Banning the Bullets!
The Patriot's Flag ^ | August 26, 2010 | ThePatriotsFlag

Posted on 08/26/2010 6:42:39 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag

Once again, the Øbama Administration is making another stealth move for circumventing the 2nd Amendment against the will of the American People. It is time to S.T.O.P. this nonsense once and for all, the EPA is the tool he is using again, this time to ban “lead” bullets … which are the ONLY kind that are affordable and legal. There is an actual petition that is now “ready for comment”. All of us need to take this opportunity to give them the “comments” they deserve. Below is the information you will need to (1) Understand the Problem, (2) Look at the Causes and (3) take action to S.T.Ø.P. it!

(Excerpt) Read more at thepatriotsflag.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; bhofascism; bullets; cbn; democrats; epa; lead; obama; tyranny
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"Lead" is the only viable bullet. Copper is too expensive and the other hard metals are already "banned," deemed as "armor-piercing." If the EPA is given the power to ban lead bullets, then sports shooting, as we know it, is finished. Note the people CAUSING this problem are a bunch of tree-huggers, The Center for Biological Diversity (CBD). Links to make comments to the EPA are on the post.
1 posted on 08/26/2010 6:42:40 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

I saw this posted on another site, was wondering why it took so long to get posted here..


2 posted on 08/26/2010 6:45:24 AM PDT by Doofer
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Who didn’t know this was coming.


3 posted on 08/26/2010 6:46:18 AM PDT by tiki
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

When do we move ? When do we fight ?


4 posted on 08/26/2010 6:46:39 AM PDT by Celerity
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

can you still buy fishing weights? and wheel weights ?


5 posted on 08/26/2010 6:47:03 AM PDT by al baby (Hi Mom REMEMBER FREE REPUBLIC IN YOUR WILL. I DID)
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To: tiki

Based on ammo sales last year, I think there were a lot of people who figured right on this one. Did my part to support the ammo industry.


6 posted on 08/26/2010 6:48:03 AM PDT by Texas resident (Outlaw fisherman)
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To: al baby

I was wondering the same thing. :-/


7 posted on 08/26/2010 6:48:30 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (I don't have a 'Cousin Pookie'.)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag
Photobucket
8 posted on 08/26/2010 6:48:36 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Yeah... the bullet speed and weight are not lethal, just the lead.(SARC) Don’t these idiots has something better to do... wait, strike that!


9 posted on 08/26/2010 6:49:09 AM PDT by mikelets456
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To: Celerity

Now! BLOAT


10 posted on 08/26/2010 6:50:31 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, Call 'em what you will. They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag
"..."Lead" is the only viable bullet. Copper is too expensive.."

Please support your contention with facts.

11 posted on 08/26/2010 6:51:19 AM PDT by verity
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To: ThePatriotsFlag; Doofer
I saw this posted on another site, was wondering why it took so long to get posted here..

It has already been posted here, but as a couple of actual articles rather than somebody's opinion blog on the subject.

Environmental Protection Agency considering a ban on lead ammunition

EPA Considering (planning) Ban on All Traditional (lead) Ammunition

12 posted on 08/26/2010 6:51:48 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: verity

“Please support your contention with facts.”

You mean you don’t understand the cost of lead versus copper?


13 posted on 08/26/2010 6:56:47 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Time to ban the EPA.


14 posted on 08/26/2010 6:56:51 AM PDT by Bean Counter (Now what kind of a geroo are you anyway?)
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To: CodeToad
""..."Lead" is the only viable bullet..."

Can you support this scientifically...frog?

15 posted on 08/26/2010 7:00:03 AM PDT by verity
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

bump


16 posted on 08/26/2010 7:00:30 AM PDT by 6ppc (It's torch and pitchfork time)
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To: verity
Please Support your Contention...(copper costs more)

Well, it's called a quick Google Search:

Metalprices.com

17 posted on 08/26/2010 7:01:13 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (http://www.thepatriotsflag.com - The Patriot's Flag)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

END THE EPA, EDU,NEA,INTERIOR ETC ETC


18 posted on 08/26/2010 7:06:05 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: VRWCmember
It has already been posted here, but as a couple of actual articles rather than somebody's opinion blog on the subject.

So did you send your COMMENT to the EPA? This is a REMINDER to the folks here at FR to jump on this one ... The NSSF really needs help with this one. This is how I am supporting them, even with a LINK to join them. Everything is credited back to them, all I'm trying to do is help THEIR effort at AWARENESS on this issue. What are YOU doing to S.T.O.P. this ... just attacking the messengers?

19 posted on 08/26/2010 7:06:17 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag (http://www.thepatriotsflag.com - The Patriot's Flag)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

See my #15.


20 posted on 08/26/2010 7:08:19 AM PDT by verity
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

I wonder if this succeeds if it means all of our ammo stocks are would then be illegal to own or shoot? Will you not be able to buy more or not even (legally) use what you have?

Also makes one wonder about other synthetic type of bullets. Hardened plastic that shatters on impact. Glass?

Where there is will, there is a way.


21 posted on 08/26/2010 7:09:00 AM PDT by IamConservative (Two wrongs don't make a right, but you might get even.)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag; All
The usual player per quick google and plenty more available:

George Soros tied to producers of radio ad accusing Glenn Beck of ... Jul 26, 2010 ... groups, such as the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD), who had ... PICO is funded by none other than George Soros. ... island-adv.com/.../george-soros-tied-to-producers-of-radio-ad-accusing-glenn-beck-of-preaching-false-gospel/ - Cached Quirks of the County - Bakersfield.com -

George Soros is founder and chairman of the Open Society Institute and the ... The Center For Biological Diversity is a haven for eugenicists & pushers of ... people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/Jburger/50235 - Cached Enviros urge oil judge to reveal investments - Josh Gerstein ...

Jun 23, 2010 ... Petrobras is George Soros' largest investment and Obama loaned them two ... Wildlife Federation, and the Center for Biological Diversity. ... www.politico.com/.../Enviros_urge_oil_judge_reveal_investments.html - Cached Soros Sees No Bottom for World Financial "Collapse" | CommonDreams.org

Feb 21, 2009 ... Center for Biological Diversity: Gulf of Mexico Still in Crisis Four ... NEW YORK - Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world ... www.commondreams.org › Archives › Headlines - Cached - Similar Which candidate has offered a solution for $3 gasoline?A - Texas ...

Ecuador Stops Petrobras's Oil Road Into Biodiversity Treasure ... Sep 8, 2005 ... For the past several months, Petrobras has been building the access road ... and how a new access road is likely to significantly impact this diversity. ... de Quito as a biological research station and education center. ... ran.org/.../ecuador-stops-petrobrass-oil-road-biodiversity-treasure - Cached Brazil: Petrobras signs $10 billion loan with CDB. - Free Online ...

Nov 6, 2009 ... Free Online Library: Brazil: Petrobras signs $10 billion loan with CDB. ... sur la Diversité Biologique (Convention on Biological Diversity) ... www.thefreelibrary.com › ... › TendersInfo › November 6, 2009 - Cached Petrobras sets oil production record - Anadarko Petroleum Gossip

Apr 20, 2010 ... Petrobras said it set the daily record, as well as a monthly record for .... The Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD), an international ... celebrifi.com/.../Petrobras-sets-oil-production-record-4246026.html - Cached Destruction and Corruption: The Jungle Adventures of an Oil ...

22 posted on 08/26/2010 7:11:28 AM PDT by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . .and Obama, not made in USA either. . .)
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To: verity

You don’t understand science if you cannot understand the statement made. Grow up.


23 posted on 08/26/2010 7:11:55 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: verity
Do you have evidence that the EPA will or would approach this issue "scientifically"?

The way that they did when they declared CO2 to be a pollutant...

24 posted on 08/26/2010 7:21:16 AM PDT by Zeppo ("Happy Pony is on - and I'm NOT missing Happy Pony")
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Bump for home.


25 posted on 08/26/2010 7:21:37 AM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Liberal Logic: Mandatory health insurance is constitutional - enforcing immigration law is not.)
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To: CodeToad

EPA Considering Ban on Traditional Ammunition
25 Aug 2010
Congress expressly exempted ammunition!

... the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976, a law in which . EPA Considering Ban on Traditional ...
www.ammoland.com/.../epa-considering-ban-on-traditional-ammunition/


26 posted on 08/26/2010 7:27:47 AM PDT by WellyP
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To: verity

>Please support your contention with facts.

You obviously have no feel for bullet or metal prices.

http://www.metalprices.com/#

Copper is 3.6 times as expensive as lead by weight.

Copper has 79% of the density of lead.

So say we want to make a bullet made purely of the respective metals. The lead bullet, due to density, will require about 26% more metal by weight.

Thus if we compensate for the density difference, copper is still 2.85 times as expensive for making bullets.


27 posted on 08/26/2010 7:28:52 AM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: verity

What you’re asking them to do is a fairly complicated procedure.

Those of us that are more familiar with ammo and reloading ammo than yourself, know this procedure.

To us it’s second nature.

We call it “looking at the price list”.


28 posted on 08/26/2010 7:33:46 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Texas resident
We've come a long way from when ads like this ran in magazines:

Photobucket

My Dad was a Army Colonel and I remember him saying to me back in the '60s, "don't ever register your guns, 'cause then THEY will know where to pick them up." That always stuck with me; especially since it came from a man who had firsthand seen the misery and devastation of tyranny, AND had an informed perspective on the methods of the world's despots.

29 posted on 08/26/2010 7:35:19 AM PDT by GunsAndBibles (God save Calif. - 'cause it's gonna take a miracle.)
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To: drbuzzard

in comparison, how does copper respond to impact?


30 posted on 08/26/2010 7:35:35 AM PDT by himno hero
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To: drbuzzard; verity

You forgot the extra wear and erosion and deposit rates on the rifled barrel from copper bullets compared to lead.

Commercially, copper is REQUIRED for hundreds more uses than lead, thus demanding copper be used in bullets wastes this valuable resource in ways it cannot be readily recycled.

Demanding copper is a typical liberal/socialist/communist/democrat “feel-good” way to “hate guns, gods, and goods”


31 posted on 08/26/2010 7:38:55 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

WHY THEY WANT OUR GUNS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73SsNFgBO4

DISARMED GERMAN JEWS AND THE HOLOCAUST!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg9q9sxJFnA

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that we will never need it until they come to take it away.” Thomas Jefferson

“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.”
Sigmund Freud


32 posted on 08/26/2010 7:49:45 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (The upcoming election is the most important in our lifetimes!!! BE THERE!!!!!!!)
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To: CodeToad
You mean you don’t understand the cost of lead versus copper?

Let's see, we need something soft (so as not to offend the BATF), cheap and dense.

Bismuth is only a little less dense. It's far more expensive, although that can be cut with an alloy like tin. The big problem is that bismuth is brittle, so bye-bye expanding bullets. So bismuth is out as a true replacement for bullets.

Actinium might work, but it's highly radioactive. Cool side benefit: Your bullets will glow in the dark. Extra benefit against criminals: Even if the shot isn't lethal, the radiation will likely finish him off.

Denser than lead there's a mainly radioactive materials, highly toxic materials, and hard metals. Gold would make an awesome bullet, about the same hardness and almost twice as dense and not brittle, but the cost is rather prohibitive.

Societies have been using lead bullets for centuries for one reason: It is the best and cheapest material for the job. There is no reasonable substitute for the price, at least not one that would be allowed by the government. I wouldn't mind a tungsten powder/plastic composite though. It would be denser than lead and could still expand, but we get back to the expense problem.

33 posted on 08/26/2010 7:59:18 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: himno hero

>in comparison, how does copper respond to impact?

In what sense? It is another soft metal, and certainly has no potential in armor piercing applications.

Most military round have a copper alloy cladding (these are the FMJ rounds) over a lead core.


34 posted on 08/26/2010 8:01:08 AM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Many waterfowl hunting areas prohibit lead shot now, you must use steel shot.


35 posted on 08/26/2010 8:04:29 AM PDT by IamConservative (Two wrongs don't make a right, but you might get even.)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

>You forgot the extra wear and erosion and deposit rates on the rifled barrel from copper bullets compared to lead.

Copper is soft enough that is difference on wear is minimal. There is a reason you use copper cladding in FMJ or JHP rounds. In fact, owing to the way lead will get stuck in rifling, copper clad bullets will require somewhat less maintenance on a gun. (I’ve scrubbed lead fouling out of a barrel, and it can be tedious).

>Commercially, copper is REQUIRED for hundreds more uses than lead, thus demanding copper be used in bullets wastes this valuable resource in ways it cannot be readily recycled.

This is certainly very true. The price difference would only be magnified if copper were also required for ammunition.

>Demanding copper is a typical liberal/socialist/communist/democrat “feel-good” way to “hate guns, gods, and goods”

Yeah, more from the watermelons (green outside, red inside).


36 posted on 08/26/2010 8:04:43 AM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

STOCK UP HEAVILY ON AMMO!!!


37 posted on 08/26/2010 8:07:19 AM PDT by PATRIOT1876 (Language, Borders, Culture, Full employment for those here legally)
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To: IamConservative

>Many waterfowl hunting areas prohibit lead shot now, you must use steel shot.

Yes, but the problem with pistol and rifle ammunition (vs. shot for shotguns) is that steel has already been banned as an ammo choice. Logically it would be the best choice for ammo since it is really dirt cheap (less than half the price of lead even, though the price does vary). Mild steel is also fairly soft (not as soft as lead or copper, but soft enough).

A few years back the BATF decided that any ammo made of steel was armor piercing and thus had to be banned. It didn’t matter if this ammo was merely made of a mild steel core which was no more armor piercing than a lead bullet. It didn’t matter if it happened to be rifle caliber rounds which would go right through most bullet proof vests purely on velocity, no matter if the bullet was made of silly putty.

It all got banned. It used to be that one of the cheapest supplies of ammo around was steel core military surplus ammo. You could but this stuff for pennies a round from overseas suppliers (Isreal, Korea, Russia etc). When the BATF made it’s revision to the rules ammo prices jumped a ton. Used to be you could buy a case of 1000 rounds of 7.62 NATO for $100. When this ban came through the price tripled. A ban on lead in bullets would have at least that magnitude of effect. I would expect it to be even more.


38 posted on 08/26/2010 8:14:01 AM PDT by drbuzzard (different league)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Yep. There are better materials but each is cost prohibitive. Hell, even just a copper clad FMJ bullet is far more expensive than a cast lead.


39 posted on 08/26/2010 8:20:54 AM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: himno hero
Depends on the alloy used. You can make it soft enough to expand or hard enough to slam through a water buffalo’s bones with little deforming.

All copper bullets are the super premium stuff.

99% of the time, people that use all copper bullets have more money than they got sense.

40 posted on 08/26/2010 8:21:33 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Pan_Yan

ping


41 posted on 08/26/2010 8:34:31 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Utopia is being foisted on Americans for their own good.-- J. Robert Smith)
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To: drbuzzard
When the BATF made it’s revision to the rules ammo prices jumped a ton. Used to be you could buy a case of 1000 rounds of 7.62 NATO for $100. When this ban came through the price tripled. A ban on lead in bullets would have at least that magnitude of effect. I would expect it to be even more.

That's a design feature, not a flaw.

You know, I cannot think of a single thing short of requiring turning over one's first born that would lead (pronounced "leed," not "led") to opposition more than something like this. One has to wonder why - is it part of Obama's plan to get reelected in 2012 by having a Republican-controlled Congress to blame for problems he knows are coming? Or is he hoping that someone will take some pot-shots at some pols, creating a reason to declare a state of emergency? Only the Shadow (and George Soros) knows.

42 posted on 08/26/2010 8:35:11 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

My understanding is that this attempt to ban all traditional ammunition is under the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976... a law in which Congress expressly exempted ammunition. In other words, the EPA lacks the authority to enact a ban and any attempt will be quickly struck-down in court.

From another site:

ammunition is explicitly excluded from the EPA’s ability to regulate via 15 USC Section 2602

http://law.onecle.com/uscode/15/2602.html

As used in this chapter:

(2)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), the term “chemical substance” means any organic or inorganic substance of a particular molecular identity...
(B) Such term does not include -

(v) any article the sale of which is subject to the tax imposed by section 4181 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 {26 U.S.C. 4181} (determined without regard to any exemptions from such tax provided by section 4182 or 4221 or any other provision of such Code)

And 26 U.S.C. 4181 refers to: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/26/D/32/D/III/4181

There is hereby imposed upon the sale by the manufacturer,
producer, or importer of the following articles a tax equivalent to the specified percent of the price for which so sold:
Articles taxable at 10 percent -
Pistols.
Revolvers.
Articles taxable at 11 percent -
Firearms (other than pistols and revolvers).
Shells, and cartridges.


43 posted on 08/26/2010 8:38:11 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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To: IamConservative

Less a ‘guaranteed’ kill for bird and so more pain and suffering. But why would a Liberal care. . .


44 posted on 08/26/2010 8:39:28 AM PDT by cricket (Osama - NOT made in the USA. . .and Obama, not made in USA either. . .)
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To: IamConservative
Many waterfowl hunting areas prohibit lead shot now, you must use steel shot.

Steel bullets in the hands of the subjects offends our overlords at the BATF.

45 posted on 08/26/2010 9:05:41 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: snowrip
any attempt will be quickly struck-down in court

Which court?

46 posted on 08/26/2010 9:07:02 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

Any court.


47 posted on 08/26/2010 9:37:47 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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To: snowrip
"Any court."

Any Clinton appointee / Obama appointee court? I've noticed those particular types of judges have a particular disregard for the rule of law.

48 posted on 08/26/2010 9:50:19 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: CodeToad; All
"""..."Lead" is the only viable bullet..."

Viable means: practical, feasible, usable, etc. If one is concerned about the accuracy of words, viable is not an accurate characterization. I guess your GED is inadequate to discern this fact, Mr. Frog.

49 posted on 08/26/2010 10:39:25 AM PDT by verity
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To: Flag_This

This is pretty cut-and-dried. And the kangaroo court decisions get overturned all the time.

I am not trying to dissuade anyone from contacting their reps on this, I’m just defining the context of what we have as a defense.


50 posted on 08/26/2010 10:47:15 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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