Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

It's Not a Question of IF Sovereign Nations Will Default, But HOW
The Business Insider ^ | Aug. 26, 2010 | the pragmatic capitalist

Posted on 08/30/2010 4:10:21 AM PDT by mark_interrupted

From this metric the United States is in far worse shape than any other country listed. The USA is even worse off than Greece. Unfortunately, there is no mention of monetary systems in the report and the analyst clearly ignores the fact that the EMU is a vastly different monetary system than that in the USA. I strongly disagree that the sovereign debt crisis is a global issue. It is primarily a European problem caused in large part by their flawed currency system. There is no default risk in the USA as I have explained before. What the United States suffers from is a massive private sector debt bubble that requires substantial de-leveraging. Where I agree with Morgan Stanley is that this crisis is far from over and that there should and will be haircuts (if only we’d allowed a few more haircuts here in the US banking system): “It is not whether to default, but how, and vis-à-vis whom. What this means is that – as indicated above – governments will impose a loss on some of their stakeholders and have in fact started to do so (across Europe at least). The question is not whether they will renege on their promises, but rather upon which of their promises they will renege, and what form this default will take. “

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: default; sovereigndebt
Interesting times ahead
1 posted on 08/30/2010 4:10:23 AM PDT by mark_interrupted
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

US government owes so much money that private debt is lost in pocket change.

LLS


2 posted on 08/30/2010 4:12:18 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LibLieSlayer

But the Congress achieved their Missions:

1 - bankrupting America
2 - supporting Sharia and al Qaeda
3 - getting a lot of payoffs, kickbacks, mortgages,
loans, special deals for themselves.


3 posted on 08/30/2010 4:14:24 AM PDT by Diogenesis (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Diogenesis

4- Allowing cluless critters to hold office


4 posted on 08/30/2010 4:33:55 AM PDT by Vaduz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

Paging Dr Cloward, Dr Piven, please pick up the courtesy phone..


5 posted on 08/30/2010 4:34:57 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: central_va

More like “Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard” for this crowd of clowns


6 posted on 08/30/2010 5:10:11 AM PDT by tgusa (Investment plan: blued steel, brass, lead, copper)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Diogenesis

Absolutely... and the bastids ain’t dun yet!

LLS


7 posted on 08/30/2010 5:15:06 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Diogenesis
But the Congress achieved their Missions:

1 - bankrupting America

2 - supporting Sharia and al Qaeda

3 - getting a lot of payoffs, kickbacks, mortgages, loans, special deals for themselves.

I think you're somewhat confused, these items are at the top of Obama's missions. If other nations (like Iran and Saudi Arabia) wanted to seriously hurt America, they could have formed armies and attacked the USA like Japan did at Pearl Harbor, you saw how that ended.

To get more bang for their bucks, just spend a few $hundred Million and elect a weenie like Obama. CAP and TRADE, Obama Care, Finanical Reform, Freedie and Fannie etc. and America's air craft carriers will sit in port and rust in just a few years.

Congress Critters are simply useful idiots, too stupid to even suspect Obama is part of a conspiracy to destroy America.

If the trials for treason do not start shortly after November 2nd, America is toast.

8 posted on 08/30/2010 5:25:16 AM PDT by politicianslie (A taxpayer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sandersp>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

The attitude of this administration towards the bigger business’ is that they are too big to fail. So it stands to reason that the same attitude is applied towards how they feel about the country as well, it’s too big to fail.

NO.....IT’S NOT!


9 posted on 08/30/2010 5:36:01 AM PDT by diverteach (D.C. has become Jonestown.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

The default in the U.S. is going to have to come in entitlements.


10 posted on 08/30/2010 5:37:38 AM PDT by fightinJAG (Step away from the toilet. Let the housing market flush.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

If the value of the currency is cut in half, the ratio of debt to revenue will be halved.

That will happen. The creditors will suffer the loss.

The fact is, it is happening as we post. The rise in precious metals valuations in the various currencies is de facto evidence

Your mortgage will once be a wealth builder as your property increases in value and your mortgage is paid in $$ having less value. Your paid up house will be a source of retirement wealth


11 posted on 08/30/2010 5:40:56 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Greetings Jacques. The revolution is coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

A question for fine financial minds, of which I am not one:

Are government bonds safe?


12 posted on 08/30/2010 6:04:18 AM PDT by Jedidah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jedidah
Are government bonds safe?

Depends on what you mean by safe.

It's a pretty good bet that you will get paid. But will you get paid with paper worth about 1/10% of the paper you used to buy the bonds?

IMO, that's a fairly reasonable possibility with the government debt situation and its willingness to run the printing presses.

13 posted on 08/30/2010 6:10:16 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s, you weren't really there.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ChildOfThe60s

So . . . inflation-proof tangible assets.


14 posted on 08/30/2010 6:13:25 AM PDT by Jedidah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: bert

Assuming that property increases in value at all.

when the demand is down the price will fall even farther.
Its what is happening right now.
And the value of money will change little of anything


15 posted on 08/30/2010 6:18:20 AM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jedidah; bert
Are government bonds safe?

NO!

Bond prices will drop like a rock when interest rates rise, which inevitably happens in the case of government default. It is not unheard of for these securities to lose up to 80 percent of their market value in a matter of hours in the event of a default panic (e.g. Greece a few months ago).

TIPS (Treasury Inflation Protected Securities) are not much better because of the way "inflation" rates are calculated (they exclude food and energy costs), the fact the inflation definitions can be changed by the government at will, and the time delay between when adjustments are calculated and interest is paid.

Your paid up house will be a source of retirement wealth ...

Historically, housing has been a terrible investment in other countries where inflation has broken higher than a few percentage points.

A house is an illiquid, immobile assets which can be (and often is) taxed into oblivion. Only a select few can afford to buy a house in inflationary economies, and they have better investment alternatives. Thus, demand falls drastically while the supply more or less remains constant causing prices to collapse in real terms.

16 posted on 08/30/2010 6:45:13 AM PDT by Zakeet (Mark Steyn: We're too broke to be this stupid)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: bert

i think the ratio would stay the same because the debt and the revenue would both be denominated in dollars


17 posted on 08/30/2010 6:56:47 AM PDT by mark_interrupted
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: mark_interrupted

The debt is fixed and in old $$. The payoff down the road will be in new inflated $$.

The creditor holding the debt loses.


18 posted on 08/30/2010 6:59:40 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Greetings Jacques. The revolution is coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

So where would you stash your money safely now? Is there such a thing as “safe”?


19 posted on 08/30/2010 12:14:42 PM PDT by Jedidah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Jedidah
So where would you stash your money safely now? Is there such a thing as “safe”?

Depends on how much you have to invest, your "investor sophistication," your age, your income, your "aversion to risk" and how much you have to invest.

Although it's impossible to give you any personal information without knowing those things, practically speaking, most small investors do well with American Eagles. The Eagle is a coin minted by the U.S. Treasury which contains various amounts of precious metal in the case of Gold Eagles and one ounce of silver in the case of Silver Eagles. You'll have something that goes up as the dollar and bond prices fall, and can be spent for goods and services when needed.

Next on the list in terms of risk, you might want to consider precious metal ETF's such as GLD, SLV, and CEF. They tend to track with the price of metals because (theoretically at least) you own a slice of gold and/or silver in an offshore vault.

Next up, you might want to consider precious metal mining company ETF's such as GDX, GDXJ, and SIL. Their profits should soar with the price of the product they sell.

You should also get a copy of "Surviving the Economic Collapse" by Fernando Ferfal Aguirre. The author is an Argentinian who "has been there" and has numerous recommendations for getting by as well as possible.

Good luck.

20 posted on 08/30/2010 12:48:32 PM PDT by Zakeet (Mark Steyn: We're too broke to be this stupid)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson