Pennsylvania Court: Guardians Can't Pull the Plug on Mentally Disabled People

So, what should we do with disabled people who can’t care for themselves? Just not treat them? Euthanize them?

Charity is good.

As long as it's voluntary, it's one of the greatest moral virtues in the Bible.

I am not aware of any laws that allow regular guardians to end a person’s life.

Once you get into the “let’s kill those who should not live” the line changes and gets closer and closer to - you!

That's the irony that none of the death mongers seem capable of understanding.

>>Charity is good.

As long as it’s voluntary, it’s one of the greatest moral virtues in the Bible. <<

Exactly. So I’m sure you have no problem with saving the life of this young man with your charitable tax money.

Because if you believe that all of the money taken from you by the government is “stolen”, then you don’t believe Christ when he said render to Caesar what is Caesar’s.

I was assuming the boy was too retarded to legally sign a document giving legal power of attorney to the couple. I don't think the issue was whether retarded kids should be put down when given the chance. To me the issue was can someone given guardianship over a disabled person that is unable to sign a living will themselves decide for that person what measures should or should not be taken under certain circumstances to save their life.

That's not the point.

That's precisely the point. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the Commandment is "Thou Shalt Not Steal". Maybe you have a more modern, Democratic version of it than the one I use.

Do YOU think those who cannot afford to pay their medical bills should be left to die?

Who said they should be left to die? I simply stated, quite Biblically correctly, that theft shouldn't be involved in the equation anywhere. That is what your Bible says, isn't it?

So, YOU think the conservative position should be to let people die for lack of medical care?

I think the conservative position is not to countenance theft no matter who is doing or why. It seems you don't. So who's the real conservative in our little conversation?

I truly believe in a “No code” or “No Heroics” order.

But that wasn’t the case here. This young man was treatable and lived. They were stopping anyone from treating him.

Nice try Snookums, but you're the one advocating the State pay for this, not me. He who pays the Piper, calls the tune.

L

>>I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure the Commandment is “Thou Shalt Not Steal”. Maybe you have a more modern, Democratic version of it than the one I use.<<

Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s.
You are commanded to pay that tax. We can fight to change the rules, but you are called as a Christian to obey Christ.

Christ didn’t say, only if ya wanna.

Would you be willing to pay for something to relieve his pain?

Nobody asked me if I would. Y'all just want the Government to stick a gun in my face and take whatever you want for whatever you want. My willingness or lack of it never even entered your pretty little head.

In December 2007, Hockenberry developed aspiration pneumonia. Hockenberry’s guardians--appointed as his legal guardians in 2002 by a trial court--tried to decline his required ventilator treatment to assist his breathing, but the hospital proceeded despite their objection. After three weeks on the mechanical ventilator, he recovered from pneumonia and no longer required the treatment.
Hockenberry’s guardians filed a petition with a trial court in January 2008 that would allow them to end his care if a similar situation were to arise in the future.

They weren't petitioning the court to end their involvement in his care. They were petitioning to end his care.

This nullifies ANY CLAIM to Godwin's Law.

Only in the mind of someone who is willing to violate God's Commandment against Theft.

>>Would you be willing to pay for something to relieve his pain?

Nobody asked me if I would. Y’all just want the Government to stick a gun in my face and take whatever you want for whatever you want. My willingness or lack of it never even entered your pretty little head. <<

Well, I did or you wouldn’t have been able to quote me,

Only in the mind of someone who is willing to violate God's Commandment against Theft.

Is all taxation theft in your opinion? And if it is why do you permit that theft to continue?

Nice try on your part, but I said no such thing. I didn’t even address that issue. I merely posted a literal translation of what you were saying. If you don’t like the fact that you were parroting a Nazi propaganda poster, maybe you should reassess your values. Don’t blame the messenger.

Ok we have some common ground at least.

Ok lets approach this from a different angle.

Does a normal healthy person have the right to make out a living will for themselves that states that under no circumstances should any artificial device like a ventilator be used to save their life?

I keep seeing the death mongers complain that taxation is theft when it’s used to prevent murder or save lives in any way, but they rarely complain about bureaucrats in tax-payer cars, or any of the government programs they personally benefit from.

>>Does a normal healthy person have the right to make out a living will for themselves that states that under no circumstances should any artificial device like a ventilator be used to save their life? <<

I Believe so.
Even a person who is not so healthy, which is why I believe in “No code” and “No heroics” orders.

I think you should have the right to go over Niagara Falls in a barrel if you so desire. That doesn’t mean you should be allowed to send a vulnerable person in your care over the falls in a barrel. It is not the same in way, shape or form. You should not be allowed to make decisions that are obviously not in their best interest, and obviously not something would choose for themselves. Especially when it’s something bizarre like going over Niagara Falls in a barrel, or being deprived of the minimal, most basic needs of life.

whew... we agree again...

now here is the tricky part...

when a person is not mentally capable of making a legally binding living will out for themselves... who (if anyone) can make one out for them?

a spouse? a parent? a guardian? the state? no one?

that to me is the real question here.