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Hybrids as City Runabouts, Natural Gas Fueled Cars for the Country
Science Daily ^ | Sep 19, 2010 | SD

Posted on 09/25/2010 4:23:10 AM PDT by Cronos

Hybrid cars and those fuelled by natural gas produce significantly less carbon dioxide (CO2) than equivalent vehicles running on gasoline. In the course of a study undertaken on behalf of the Swiss Federal Office for the Environment (FOEN), the results of which were recently published, Empa has investigated the CO2 emission behavior of current hybrid cars. A comparison with gasoline and natural gas fuelled vehicles concludes that hybrid vehicles are the cleanest during inner-city driving whilst natural gas fuelled cars do best on the motorway. When driven in rural areas, both types do equally well. Under mixed conditions (that is real, everyday driving) vehicles based on both concepts offer reductions of up to 25 per cent in CO2 emissions compared to conventional gasoline fuelled automobiles. Hybrid drive systems and natural gas engines therefore represent an important technical measure for reducing CO2 emissions which can be put to use immediately, as do vehicles powered by renewable fuels such as biogas and ethanol derived from waste matter.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencedaily.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: autos; cars; energy; environment; hybrid; naturalgas
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1 posted on 09/25/2010 4:23:17 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

I hope lots of folks drive these ....to save gasoline so that my 4X4 and my 60’s and 70s muscle cars have plenty.....


2 posted on 09/25/2010 4:28:29 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Cronos

I went from a 740il BMW to a Prius about 18 months ago. I loved the BMW and I love the Prius. The technology in both of them is fascinating...but 57 miles per gallon and plenty of comfort wins out for me. One neighbor calls it the ninja car because it sneaks up on him and the other calls it my smugmobile!

The Prius also helps me pay for the gasoline for my wife’s Buick SUV (which will likely be replaced with a Prius next year) and my V8 F150 pick-up!


3 posted on 09/25/2010 4:39:29 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

How many miles per year do you drive the smugmobile?


4 posted on 09/25/2010 4:58:50 AM PDT by CarmichaelPatriot
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To: Cronos

Will these natural gas cars become mini bombs?


5 posted on 09/25/2010 5:00:25 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: Cronos
produce significantly less carbon dioxide Every IDIOT who thinks that carbon dioxide is a dangerous pollutant should be immediately jailed and fined for spewing it into the atmosphere upon every breath.
6 posted on 09/25/2010 5:01:34 AM PDT by MrDem (Founder: Democrats for Cheney/Palin 2012)
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To: CarmichaelPatriot

About 15,000


7 posted on 09/25/2010 5:06:03 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Cronos
No matter what they use for fuel, individual vehicles create traffic congestion and gridlock in urban environments.
Cities are much better off providing emission-free, electrically powered mass transit systems such as trolleys/streetcars/subways/monorails. etc. etc.
8 posted on 09/25/2010 5:33:49 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: Willie Green

Actually, it is urban environments that cause gridlock. Too many people in too small an area. The country would be much better off if cities were removed and broken down into smaller, manageable towns with a population density of less than 100 people per square mile.


9 posted on 09/25/2010 5:43:40 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Willie Green
so you like mass transit

enjoy your cattle car....

are you sure you are not mistaking this website for DU or daily Kos???

10 posted on 09/25/2010 5:46:35 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: meyer
The country would be much better off if cities were removed and broken down into smaller, manageable towns with a population density of less than 100 people per square mile

let the slimes fill the cities...

keep them out of the clean country....

believe me you do NOT want to manage me or my kind....

I do believe I wandered into a dhimmicrat website somehow.

11 posted on 09/25/2010 5:49:42 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Cronos

This is an obvious solution to ending the dependence on foreign oil. Plus, you’d never see gasoline process peaking on Memorial Day and Labor Day again.

We have so much natural gas in this country, we’re exporting it via LNG ships. The best solution would be multi-fuel vehicles that would run on either natural gas or gasoline. Currently drilling Marcellus Shale wells is creating a monster over supply of natural gas.

It would be nice to dump the oil price to a level that slowly starved Iran.


12 posted on 09/25/2010 6:03:27 AM PDT by meatloaf
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To: Vaquero

Since when are conservatives prohibited from supporting energy efficient technologies???


13 posted on 09/25/2010 6:08:46 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: Vaquero
I do believe I wandered into a dhimmicrat website somehow.

I do believe that you completely missed the point.

14 posted on 09/25/2010 6:30:27 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Willie Green
Since when are conservatives prohibited from supporting energy efficient technologies???

People can support anything they want - WITH THIER OWN FREAKIN' MONEY!!

15 posted on 09/25/2010 6:32:50 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: meyer
That's a nice theory for solitary hermits and whacknuts living out in the wilderness somewhere.
People living in less desolate regions of our planet must adapt to more pragmatic approaches to socio-economic organization.
16 posted on 09/25/2010 6:44:09 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: Cronos
no thankx... i couldn't care less about my carbon footprint!!!

when i step on the gas, i expect things to happen NOW, not later

i'll pay for the gas, there's no substitute for cubic inches...

17 posted on 09/25/2010 6:44:18 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Willie Green
That's a nice theory for solitary hermits and whacknuts living out in the wilderness somewhere. People living in less desolate regions of our planet must adapt to more pragmatic approaches to socio-economic organization.

Translation: I want YOUR money, slave!

18 posted on 09/25/2010 6:46:34 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Marty62
Will these natural gas cars become mini bombs?

Seriously, a good question. Because if they don't we would be set. The US has mid blowing reserves of natural gas. And it is easy to make more gas out of coal, sewage or animal waste. So if you can run a muscle car on Methane there would be no reason to buy oil from Osama and Co or drive an electric roller skate.
19 posted on 09/25/2010 6:57:01 AM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: Willie Green
Why don't you leave us whacknuts alone and move back where you came from so you can ride the choo choo every where you go. I am sure local freepers would help you pack.

Didn't I read that Houston metro doesn't have the money for the Richmond Ave trolley? Too bad, aw, I'll bet you are sobbing.

20 posted on 09/25/2010 6:57:05 AM PDT by Ditter
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To: meyer
The country would be much better off if cities were removed and broken down into smaller, manageable towns with a population density of less than 100 people per square mile

I do believe that you completely missed the point.

well what is your point....you have already stated you prefer that the crud from the cities be spread like manure into the last remaining unspoiled places to make people more manageable....what point did I miss????? Sounds vaguely familiar with something Hitler, Stalin, or Mao would say

21 posted on 09/25/2010 6:57:26 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: meyer
"The only thing certain in life is death and taxes."

I happen to believe that the latter is the lesser of two evils.
If you disagree, you are free to choose the former.

22 posted on 09/25/2010 6:58:32 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: meyer

Don’t even think of moving those idiots into my space.

The fewer the neighbors the better.


23 posted on 09/25/2010 6:59:10 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Vaquero

“I hope lots of folks drive these ....to save gasoline so that my 4X4 and my 60’s and 70s muscle cars have plenty.....”

I hope lots of folks drive natural gas vehicles .... so that we can rely on domestic sources of energy and not continute to send billions in petrodollars to Islamic countries that want to behead us.


24 posted on 09/25/2010 7:03:47 AM PDT by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: GonzoGOP

This is the problem, no one ever thinks about unintended consequences.


25 posted on 09/25/2010 7:03:50 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: IMR 4350

IMR 4350???

I use it often along with IMR 4320, IMR 4381, IMR 3031, and IMR 4227 for magnum pistols...

along with a plethora of other powders from various manufacturers


26 posted on 09/25/2010 7:04:23 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: SharpRightTurn
I hope lots of folks drive natural gas vehicles .... so that we can rely on domestic sources of energy and not continute to send billions in petrodollars to Islamic countries that want to behead us.

Me too....I would even consider a conversion so I can use both...

but we have LOTS of OIL....we are just not allowed by Dhimmicrats and RINOs to drill for it....so using gas instead of middle eastern oil is NOT the only solution

ps. the fracking of the Marcellus shale to extract natural gas, is the next thing the environweenies are stoking up their marxist blockade against

..environmentalism is collectivism in drag

George Will

27 posted on 09/25/2010 7:10:07 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Vaquero
well what is your point....you have already stated you prefer that the crud from the cities be spread like manure into the last remaining unspoiled places to make people more manageable....what point did I miss????? Sounds vaguely familiar with something Hitler, Stalin, or Mao would say

No, I didn't say that I "prefer that the drud from the cities be spreadlike manure into the last remaining unspoiled places to make people more manageable". If you read more carefully, you'd note that I was responding to choo-choo Willie's assertion that individual transportation caused gridlock. My point was simply that population density was the cause of gridlock (and many other of society's ills, but that's another story for another time), not individuals driving their automobiles freely from one place to another.

My use of the term "manabeable" was perhaps poorly chosen, especially given the direction our government is heading.

28 posted on 09/25/2010 7:11:12 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: Vaquero

4227 works great in the 32-20 too.


29 posted on 09/25/2010 7:13:29 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: Willie Green
"The only thing certain in life is death and taxes."

Sadly, that statement has frequently been used out of its original context, usually by big-government leftists that enjoy living off the fruit of other peoples' labor.

I happen to believe that the latter is the lesser of two evils. If you disagree, you are free to choose the former.

But that would be murder...

30 posted on 09/25/2010 7:17:10 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: IMR 4350

32-20

cool old round...either in a revolver or an original winchester ‘73 or ‘92...

my original ‘73 is in 44-40 and I use very light loads of W-231 around 6.7gr....with a 200gr hard cast bullet for 700-800 fps....


31 posted on 09/25/2010 7:32:56 AM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: Cronos

I recently purchased a Honda Civic GX which is natural gas powered. Best car decision I ever made. Fuel is cheap ($1.50 per gal) and I do my part to end dependence on foreign oil. I commute a total of 100 miles a day and get to use the HOV lane which gets me around congestion. The Civic GX has the cleanest burning engine of any vehicle on the road so I am not contributing to the smog/pollution problems that plague my area (the cities that make up the metro area I am in were the 5 worst in air quality in the nation for a period of time last winter). I am looking to buy a home fueling device as well, to further lower my fuel costs. If you live in an area that has a decent CNG fueling infrastructure, I highly recommend a CNG vehicle like the Civic GX.


32 posted on 09/25/2010 8:01:47 AM PDT by Spiff
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To: Spiff

How effective is it towing your boat?


33 posted on 09/25/2010 8:03:30 AM PDT by verity
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To: Willie Green
... emission-free, electrically powered ...

So now you're claiming electrical power is emission-free?

34 posted on 09/25/2010 8:28:43 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
I obviously claimed that electrically powered mass transit systems are emission free,
so your truncation of my statement to imply othersise is a pretty adolescent ploy, Duncan.
35 posted on 09/25/2010 8:50:55 AM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: Willie Green

So now you’re claiming that if the emissions involved in the production of electrical power are emitted elsewhere, they don’t exist?

With brilliant thinking like that you must have an MBA.


36 posted on 09/25/2010 9:12:40 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
So now you’re claiming that if the emissions involved in the production of electrical power are emitted elsewhere, they don’t exist?

That's my thing with electric vehicles, so many claim that they're emission free or low-pollution, but they're not. Unless the electricity was produced from a clean source like natural gas or nuclear, then it was most likely produced in coal or petroleum burning power plants. In the U.S., most electricity is produced in non-clean sources such as coal or petroleum burning power plants so it just moves the pollutants elsewhere. And in the case of petroleum-burning power plants, it still relies upon foreign oil and funds countries that are our enemies or who fund our enemies.

The same case can be made against hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, when they become available. It takes electricity to produce hydrogen, the electricity is most likely produced at a coal or petroleum burning power plant.

37 posted on 09/25/2010 11:41:03 AM PDT by Spiff
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To: Chode
I really couldn't care less about my carbon footprint either. So, "whilst" they contemplate hybrids and natural gas I'll keep burning diesel as long as I can.
38 posted on 09/25/2010 1:14:30 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half of the population is below average)
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To: Sequoyah101
good for you...
39 posted on 09/25/2010 1:22:21 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Willie Green
People living in less desolate regions of our planet must adapt to more pragmatic approaches to socio-economic organization.

William Pitt knew your kind:

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

So which are you? Tyrant or slave?

40 posted on 09/25/2010 3:16:52 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Willie Green

Except nobody rides them, so every penny spent on them is wasted. Lightrail is a boondoggle.


41 posted on 09/25/2010 3:19:20 PM PDT by discostu (Keyser Soze lives)
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To: Willie Green

There’s nothing conservative about stealing 4 billion dollars from the people to build 11 miles worth of track in DC that won’t be ridden.


42 posted on 09/25/2010 3:21:17 PM PDT by discostu (Keyser Soze lives)
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To: Willie Green; Vaquero; meyer; Kolokotronis
I agree -- mass transit makes a lot of sense in dense cities -- look at the efficient mass transit in Europe. In rural US, SUVs matter, but in the cities, they don't. however, the idea of smaller towns is not sensible -- large cities are beehives of activities, meeting people, new people, culture, etc. and that's the way it has been for thousands of years: and that's a reason for that. Smaller towns are not necessarily more manageable as someone has to manage what happens when you cross the boundaries between the towns. And also, the urban sprawl tends to destroy nice green places where one can walk and relax and also over-runs farms etc. Cities are a center of trade as they have always been, rural areas are also very important -- the suburban or small towns are the ones stuck in-between neither here nor there.

Also, using SUVs MAKEs sense (as the article says) -- for folks that use that, so why not push them to be more efficient? If you can get more power, better mileage and yet cleaner burn at the back, why not?

Vaquero --> you're out of line accusing Willie Green of being a Dem --> and it's not a cattle car: have you ever travelled by public transport in NY or W. Europe?
43 posted on 09/28/2010 12:43:22 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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To: meatloaf; Vaquero

Yes, from what I have heard, the US has the largest amounts of NG reserves. Why not switch to that and starve Saudi Arabia and Iran (whom we do not import from, by the way, but Saudia is the one supporting the terrorists), we’d be much better off. Why would you, Vaq, not want to starve the SAuds?


44 posted on 09/28/2010 12:45:04 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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To: Chode

“when i step on the gas, i expect things to happen NOW, not later “ —> and that’s what good hybrid technology CAN do —> set it on electric when you are in stop-start traffic or idling and then give you the push when you need it. Think of this —> you drive your F150 and you’re in a long tailback. During this while, why not have the car automatically switch to electric to keep it rolling, yet not use up gas? And then when you get out of the jam and go uphill, your car switches to gas and gives you the bhp you need.


45 posted on 09/28/2010 12:47:45 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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To: Vaquero; meyer

“you have already stated you prefer that the crud from the cities be spread like manure into the last remaining unspoiled places to make people more manageable....what point did I miss????? Sounds vaguely familiar with something Hitler, Stalin, or Mao would say “ —> completely inaccurate. That is not what the article or Meyer or even Hit/Stal/Mao said. being rude and insulting people instead of debating a point is something a Democrat does — are you looking for DU by any chance?


46 posted on 09/28/2010 12:50:03 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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To: Vaquero; SharpRightTurn
we have lots of oil. YES -- and we SHOULD drill in ANWAR, but oil is needed for lots of other stuff -- from plastics to boots. And we should not use up all our oil and then be completely dependent on Moslimes to get the oil we need for petrochemical products.

Use OUR oil, but use it wisely so that no American, no or in future generations has to depend on the Moslem slime.
47 posted on 09/28/2010 12:53:04 PM PDT by Cronos (This Church is holy, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church-St.Augustine)
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To: Willie Green
"The only thing certain in life is death and taxes."

I happen to believe that the latter is the lesser of two evils.
If you disagree, you are free to choose the former.

That has to be the singular most mind-numbingly idiotic dumb-ass comment I have seen in my 8 years of signed up plus 1 year of lurking time in this forum. Essentially, if you don't believe in high taxes, then you choose death? You did notice it says 'and', not 'or'. Maybe, if we build enough choo-choos with taxes, we can achieve immortality! Holy crap! Is that your reason for your obsession? I always thought you approached this topic with religious fervor. Public rail is the fountain of youth! Choose Amtrak and live forever!

48 posted on 09/28/2010 1:00:43 PM PDT by tnlibertarian
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To: tnlibertarian

That reply wasn’t addressed to you, so stuff a sock in it.


49 posted on 09/28/2010 1:05:27 PM PDT by Willie Green (Some people march to a different drummer ~ and some people polka.)
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To: Willie Green
That reply wasn’t addressed to you, so stuff a sock in it.

Um, there is a button for private reply if you don't want unsolicited comments. Wait, wait. Let me try one. Tell me if this is how you do it:

They say, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."
Well, I'm no fan of a scorned woman, but I'll take that over the alternative.
If you want to choose hell, go right ahead.

Did I get that right?

How about this?

I've heard "A fool and his money are soon parted."
I'll take the money, you can keep right on being the fool

50 posted on 09/28/2010 1:26:18 PM PDT by tnlibertarian
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