People scoff at Hawking for saying the universe didn't need to be created, calling him an idiot. But their response is just that it had to come from somewhere and they throw God in. This isn't an answer. It just moves the answer an extra step away. If one can say God just is, then one can say the universe just is.
The difference between what I said and what Hawking says is that I state very clearly that this is a belief. On the other hand, Hawking and others like him present their own unscientific personal beliefs as facts.
If one can say God just is, then one can say the universe just is.
Exactly. This just shows that this question is beyond the scope of science. Hawking is deceiving people by presenting his own personal beliefs as science.
Not really. Red shift has shown a beginning, therefore there are limits to the size of the universe. It's material. God isn't.
If God is outside the universe, then it isn't exactly the same thing with just one more step added.
Believing that the universe just is and excluding God is just one step removed in the other direction.
In the end, whether you beleive in God and the universe or just the universe, it's all philosophical and taken by faith. In that way scientists and atheists are no different than the believers they dis.