Posted on 09/25/2010 8:11:33 AM PDT by redreno
You have a nice day.
Facts.
That was the word that eluded you.
Scott made two main mistakes. Carried his weapon in to the store supposedly against Costco policy and while under the influence of pain medication. It sounds like he had built up a tolerance and this wouldn’t be any different then someone drinking a 12 pack then thinking that they are okay to drive.
He acted strangely but according to what I read he did nothing “strange” against the law. If the employees had not seen his weapon nothing would have come of his strange behavior. The employees and security were over zealous and called 911 after knowing he had a weapon under the assumption he “might do something” although he never took the weapon out at any time. I think Scott and security had conversed that he was legally carrying but security did not tell the cops that fact. The cop in question seriously prejudged the situation again based on “he might do something”.
Scott never knew he was the target before or after he left the store. In his mind he did nothing wrong. The Costco employees and cops ambushed him period. Now if he had brandished his weapon at any time I could see the cops predetermined actions. The cop got close enough to touch him and see his “glossy eyes” but could not see the weapon being pulled out while in it’s holster? If the cop came up from behind to touch him then they could have just as easily taken him down. If the cop thought he was so dangerous (not brandishing a weapon) they should have stayed away from him and let him - Scott clear the area and then confronted him from a distance.
I agree I would not want to be stopped by this cop.
You know, this was a tragedy all around, and no matter how it gets dissected, I don't think that's going to change.
Your counterfactual question is probably the only way to extract any good out of this terrible situation, ie, what can we in the CCW community, and those in LE, do better to prevent such tragedies in the future? Specifically, you direct your question to the officers: Why couldn’t they have just asked him calmly to lie down and wait until their superiors arrived, instead of pointing guns at him and yelling conflicting instructions?
It seems to me that things went south a couple of minutes earlier than that, when LVPD units placed themselves in a position to make contact with the subject, albeit inadvertently, prior to having sufficient numbers on scene, and having less-lethal options brought forward by the supervisor. (An ancillary question may involve putting less-lethal options in more patrol cars, to allow patrol officers to be able to deploy those options prior to a supervisor's arrival).
Granted, that's Monday morning quarterbacking, but I think the PD would have had a better chance of disarming Scott safely, with additional officers present with at least some less-lethal weapons available, which of course, is what they were trying to set up: that plan was OBE.
There's more, perhaps for the next thread, if tempers here manage to cool.
Yeah, it's Scott's fault. The three sorry sacks of sh*t that came in looking to gun someone down, who shouted contradictory orders they don't even remember shouting, were the true victims. Maybe they need to sue Scott's estate for pain and suffering.
He was ALSO told to disarm.
2 problems with those 2 'mistakes'...
first being, all reports indicate there were NO signs alerting people to a no gun policy...
2ndly, the idea that someone who is too impaired to use an adequate amount of 'reasoning ability' when using a tool, should 'legally' be expected to use that same lack of reasong ability, to make a responsible decision to not use it, is insane and dishonest...
*if* the whole cast of characters believed him to be so torn up that he couldnt function, [maybe he was] he was an easy take down w/o a [controlled] chaos of an evac of a large store and armed confrontation...
the fact that a cop was close enough to touch him, tells me if he wasnt going for a takedown, he violated protocol in getting that close in the first place...
I believe that scott was completely unaware of his fate till about 3 seconds before he was shot...
in a *FRee* country, that is totally unacceptable...
Other then being told to "drop it" when he probably had the gun in his hand I'm unaware of when he was told to disarm. He was definitely being told to put his hands in the air and drop to the ground.
as others have said, *if* they honestly thought he was that high and dangerous, and used these tactics, and had this cop being the front man, ifn i lived in vegas, id be very afraid for my family...
Was Mosher operating under the rules you were taught for Afghanistan?
You already told me this anecdote. Why do you keep straying from the evidence and testimony from the inquest?
>Was Mosher operating under the rules you were taught for Afghanistan?
Are you honestly suggesting that civilian police officers should be held to a LESSER standard [amount of culpability/accountability] than troops deployed in a war-zone?
No, Mosher obviously was NOT operating with the restraint and control we demand of our soldiers in Afghanistan. And it is pretty sad when a cop in Las Vegas has more leeway in killing people that soldiers in a war zone!
“You already told me this anecdote. Why do you keep straying from the evidence and testimony from the inquest?”
What the evidence shows is that Mosher did not operate with the intelligence and control of a good cop or a good soldier. I think that makes his continued employment as a cop problematic. The anecdote shows that good cops CAN and DO make split second decisions and are not spring loaded to kill.
I think if I shot someone whose 1911 was holstered, the DA would be on me like white on rice. But since it is a cop who shot a man who didn’t need shooting, the DA is happy with it and so are you.
Pathetic.
Mosher was operating under the laws of Nevada. As far as your experiences go I have no way to verify them, therefore all I'm concerned with is what's happening at the inquest and the laws of Nevada.
But since it is a cop who shot a man who didn’t need shooting, the DA is happy with it and so are you.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You had plenty of time to analyze all the information and there are no deadly consequences if you're wrong. I'm not happy with the outcome. I'm not happy that Scott decided to go to a Costco instead of a hospital where he belonged, and I'm not happy that he decided to illegally carry a weapon while he was under the influence of drugs.
We obviously will not come to a meeting of the minds. I think a cop should show greater restraint than a soldier in a war, and you are content with less.
Along with a lot of other folks with military time, I’ve had to live or die with split second decisions. I’ve made them correctly, and lived. Mosher made one (or maybe two) incorrectly, and killed. I’m not suggesting he be crucified, but he is a damn poor cop who needs to find another line of work. Preferably one with no need for instant and accurate decisions...
Armed, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through Cosco.
I don’t think it was his fault. The mistakes (I have to retract one - if there was not a sign posted prohibiting weapons) were not in any way justification for the Cops to kill him. I see the security guy and the cop more to blame than anyone.
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