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The Atheist As Moralist
Townhall.com ^ | October 15, 2010 | Michael Gerson

Posted on 10/15/2010 11:28:20 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: MrB

So is it only necessary to follow the law as given by Jesus? Are all of the OT laws nullified by the NT? And if not, is there a reference somewhere that codifies which OT laws are still relevant?

I know it sounds like I’m baiting you, but I ask in sincerity.


41 posted on 10/15/2010 12:44:22 PM PDT by ozidar
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To: MrB

Absolutley true...just saying, if one is worried about “how to choose which parts of the Bible to follow,” they can start with that verse and be most of the way there.


42 posted on 10/15/2010 12:44:34 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: tumblindice

See my post to Oztrich and answer it, if you please. The first part about mocking is not something I’d ask you to answer, since you weren’t doing that.


43 posted on 10/15/2010 12:47:09 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: ozidar

If you’re asking with all sincerity,
it will be necessary that you do some research on your own,
as this is too big of a topic to cover on a discussion board.

My paraphrasing would be a POOR substitute for the Word:
Matt 5:17-18
17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

The Law stands as The Law. Its intent is to point out the standard to which no man can actually reach, and the necessity of acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice as the atonement for that shortfall.

Read the Gospels first. Then you can read the OT and say to yourself - yes, here is the standard of The Law, and Christ paid for my trangressions thereof.


44 posted on 10/15/2010 12:51:42 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Captain PJ
It does not take a god to instill a good sense of right and wrong.

define "right" and "wrong". Apart from God these words have no meaning as your "right" could very well be my "wrong".

Atheism, if the atheists were being honest, always comes down to "might makes right"

45 posted on 10/15/2010 12:52:55 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Mr. Silverback

I’m curious as to why those two commandments exist in every religion, except those without a concept of God, which have only the second.


46 posted on 10/15/2010 12:53:29 PM PDT by ozidar
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To: Tribemike1

“Atheists continually hijack the principles of the Christian worldview — of life and reality — in order to live and function daily. If I punched one of these loudmouths in the face, the objection would come back...”that’s not nice..” Based on WHAT?”

—I don’t think one needs to “hijack” Christianity or any other worldview in order to realize that it’s not pleasant to be punched in the face.


47 posted on 10/15/2010 12:54:22 PM PDT by goodusername
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To: John O

The golden rule. Do unto others.


48 posted on 10/15/2010 12:54:37 PM PDT by ozidar
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To: Mr. Silverback

Listen to what the subject of this thread has to say on the topic, provided above, and reply to that, if you would.
To say that you believe in something adamantly but just in case you’re wrong you have a `Plan B,’ doesn’t that seem a little craven to you?


49 posted on 10/15/2010 12:54:37 PM PDT by tumblindice (Let me say this about that--I remain quite firm, but I'm also flexible.)
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To: John O

Apart from God these words have no meaning as your “right” could very well be my “wrong”.


And there would be no way to prove which of you was right.

I actually had someone yesterday who would rather say that he couldn’t judge between Mother Theresa and Adolph Hitler
than he would admit to the existance of absolute standards.

Rejection of absolute standards is easily shown to be either a falsehood or an absurdity.


50 posted on 10/15/2010 12:55:22 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: ozidar

I’m curious as to why those two commandments exist in every religion, except those without a concept of God, which have only the second.


easy. God wrote these things in our very being. It’s part of the “general revelation” which drives humans to seek Him.

Romans 2:14-15
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)


51 posted on 10/15/2010 12:57:49 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: MrB

Thank you. I will research further.


52 posted on 10/15/2010 12:58:56 PM PDT by ozidar
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To: MrB
Jesus represents the new covenant, the fullfillment of the Law given in the Old Testament, and his teachings, where they “override” the OT, are what you follow.

The New Testament is in the Old Testiment concealed.

The Old Testiment is in the New Testiment revealed.



Runaway Slave

Apostle Claver tells the world how the real party of racism is the Democrats

53 posted on 10/15/2010 12:59:09 PM PDT by rdb3 (The mouth is the exhaust pipe of the heart.)
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To: ozidar

Why didn’t you answer the question?

I’ll be glad to answer your query after you answer mine.


54 posted on 10/15/2010 1:02:53 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: MrB
easy. God wrote these things in our very being. It’s part of the “general revelation” which drives humans to seek Him. Sounds like the Bible says that people know right from wrong whether they believe in God or not. What was the argument about then?
55 posted on 10/15/2010 1:03:16 PM PDT by ozidar
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To: goodusername
—I don’t think one needs to “hijack” Christianity or any other worldview in order to realize that it’s not pleasant to be punched in the face.

Yes, but who says it's wrong to punch someone in the face just because it's unpleasant?

56 posted on 10/15/2010 1:05:16 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Mr. Silverback

Sorry. I agree that there is no reason to pick and choose if those two rules are the entirety of the law.


57 posted on 10/15/2010 1:06:31 PM PDT by ozidar
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To: ozidar
The golden rule.

He who has the gold, makes the rules?

Do unto others

Then split?

Without God there is no golden rule.

58 posted on 10/15/2010 1:09:06 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Alberta's Child
I would take great comfort in learning that they were Christians on their way home from a Bible study group meeting.

Of course this is time and/or location dependent. Through out most of the last 2000 years, that has not been the case. Inquisition, crusades, reformation, pogroms, and the holocaust were times of near certain death coming across that same group. And we now see an icredible rise in antisemitism that may well again end in christians killing Jews in the future.

59 posted on 10/15/2010 1:09:30 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
"Who makes the rules that govern morality in your little world?"

Who made yours? God? Where did he provide them? The Bible? Have you actually read the stuff in there?

60 posted on 10/15/2010 1:10:04 PM PDT by mlo
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