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Vatican: Koran encourages 'killing Christians'
Adnkronos International ^ | 10/22/10 | Staff

Posted on 10/22/2010 9:13:25 AM PDT by Nachum

Vatican City - The Koran is a text that encourages Islam to impose itself with force and permits the killing of Christians, said Lebanon's Catholic Patriarch of Antioch Archbishop Raboula Beylouni, addressing a Vatican meeting of Middle East bishops. "The Koran gives Muslims the right to judge Christians and kill them with Jihad," he said. "It gives orders to impose religion with force, with the sword. For this reason, Muslims don't recognise the freedom of religion among themselves or others." Pope Benedict XVI on 11 Oct. the opened the two-week-long meeting of 246 Middle East bishops and other religious leaders

(Excerpt) Read more at adnkronos.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: encourages; killing; koran; vatican
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1 posted on 10/22/2010 9:13:31 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

Pope Benedict can now forget that NPR interview.


2 posted on 10/22/2010 9:14:41 AM PDT by AU72
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To: Nachum

Hey Vatican! Thanks for noticing.


3 posted on 10/22/2010 9:15:30 AM PDT by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: Nachum

Yup. Three choices are given: become a dhimmi (submit to live as second class citizen), or convert, or die. Religious obligation for them.


4 posted on 10/22/2010 9:16:20 AM PDT by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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To: theDentist
Hey Dentist!

Unless you're Jewish, "The Vatican" knew the dangers of mohammedanism, and actively opposed it, long before your denomination existed.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good snark ...

5 posted on 10/22/2010 9:18:11 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Nachum
Vatican: Koran encourages 'killing Christians'

Are you sure? I think the government needs to do a multi- billion study just to make sure...

6 posted on 10/22/2010 9:19:34 AM PDT by mikelets456
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To: Nachum

they actually read the Koran


7 posted on 10/22/2010 9:19:46 AM PDT by therightliveswithus
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To: Nachum

Phase one in effect.


8 posted on 10/22/2010 9:19:48 AM PDT by bayouranger (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices the lie.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
...don't let the facts get in the way of a good snark ...

I try not to. Yes, I know they were aware, but it was like the big elephant in the room. they seldom speak of it, succumbing to Political Correctness.

9 posted on 10/22/2010 9:22:42 AM PDT by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: Nachum
The image of JPII kissing a Koran is widely misunderstood and often defamed. It is used frequently by anti-Catholics to imply that the Catholic Church is in some way in league with Islam. Nothing could be further from the truth. Unlike Calvinism that has many dogmatic similarities to Islam the Catholic Church has stood in steadfast opposition to Islam for over 1300 years.

The Church recognizes the Abrahamic origins of Islam, but that in no way endorses it. The Church declares that there is one infinitely perfect God and that Islam, like many Christian sects, imperfectly describes and worships Him.

10 posted on 10/22/2010 9:22:50 AM PDT by Natural Law ("opera Christi non deficiunt, sed proficiunt")
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To: Nachum

It’s a good thing he didn’t say that on “The View.”


11 posted on 10/22/2010 9:25:10 AM PDT by Miles the Slasher
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To: Nachum
Ping for later.

I may want to use this link in a Facebook argument I am having with a liberal. He is incredulous that terrorists may be motivated by Islam and urged me to speak with an Imam and get set straight.

12 posted on 10/22/2010 9:26:04 AM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: ArrogantBustard
"The Vatican" knew the dangers of mohammedanism, and actively opposed it, long before your denomination existed.

I wouldn't get to triumphant when there are photos of the late Pope JP2 kissing the Koran.

13 posted on 10/22/2010 9:28:03 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Germans in 1932 thought they were voting for change too.)
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To: Nachum

Obama will probably want to cut diplomatic ties with the Vatican....


14 posted on 10/22/2010 9:29:35 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: Natural Law

Your defense of Pope John Paul 2’s kissing the Koran is not impressive. You can recognize Islam’s pseudo Abrahamic origins w/out kissing the Koran.


15 posted on 10/22/2010 9:29:43 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Germans in 1932 thought they were voting for change too.)
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To: Nachum

The Vatican needs to get these marching orders out to the Clergy. While world governments still allow it.


16 posted on 10/22/2010 9:29:47 AM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: Natural Law

“The image of JPII kissing a Koran is widely misunderstood and often defamed.”

Lame excuse. The image speaks for itself. JPII was dabbling with syncretism.

Would JPII kiss the book of Mormon??? They have as much claim to Abrahamic origins.

Would YOU kiss a book that rationalized the killing of your mother or daughter?


17 posted on 10/22/2010 9:32:31 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Tamar1973
Since the mohammedans' favourite curse-word is "Crusader", I'll get as "triumphant" as I like.
18 posted on 10/22/2010 9:32:41 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
THE RULES:

Rule One: "Rome" is the locus of all evil in the Universe.

Rule Two: In case of doubt, see Rule One.

Corollary: "Rome" must be destroyed. All else is irrelevant.

19 posted on 10/22/2010 9:35:23 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Nachum

The headline makes it appear that the Catholic Church was officially making this pronouncement. It wasn’t the pope who said this, but one Arab archbishop (who happened to have a ringside seat when Muslims were killing Catholics unless he happened to be in Rome at the time of the civil war).


20 posted on 10/22/2010 9:35:42 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: ArrogantBustard

THE RULES V2.0:

Rule One: “Rome” is never, wrong. It is logically impossible for “Rome” to be wrong.

Rule Two: In case of doubt, see Rule One.

Corollary: “Rome’s” every act must be defended to the point of absurdity. All else is irrelevant.


21 posted on 10/22/2010 9:40:29 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Natural Law

>> The Church recognizes the Abrahamic origins of Islam, but that in no way endorses it.<<

Abrahamic origins? Islam does NOT have Abrahamic origin. The origins of Islam are Pagan. The gods of Mecca included the moon god which is what Muhammad made central and ultimately the only god, thus t he black rock. Muhammad only used some of the Torah to subvert the Judeo/Christian texts to try to legitimize Islam.


22 posted on 10/22/2010 9:41:21 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Tamar1973
"Your defense of Pope John Paul 2’s kissing the Koran is not impressive. You can recognize Islam’s pseudo Abrahamic origins w/out kissing the Koran."

The image was but a moment captured out of context. JPII journeyed to Iraq for several reasons. The first was that it was the origin of Abraham, the patriarch of the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic faiths. His kissing of the book was an acknowledgment of this and an emphasis on the things that bind us as people, not on the things that divide us.

The second was that Koran was a gift to him from the delegation. Islamic peoples are not casual in the giving of gifts, particularly the Koran. It was great honor. The Iraqi delegation knew perfectly well that the Pope was a Catholic Christian, but they gave to him that which was regarded as most important in their life, their own holy book. It represented the most charitable act of the giver.

JPII showed his deep appreciation to this intimate self-donation, by bowing and kissing the Koran as a sign of respect. Such a gesture ran totally against the grain of crusades and condemnations. It did not mean that the Pope accepted all that was in the book, only that his love for the Muslim people, and the Iraqis in particular, was genuine.

The third and most important reason was the Pope's genuine declaration with this act that Christian love trumps all.

23 posted on 10/22/2010 9:41:33 AM PDT by Natural Law ("opera Christi non deficiunt, sed proficiunt")
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To: Martin Tell

He isn’t incredulous, he is practising TAQQYAH with you. If he is a true Muslim, he’ll have read those passages promoting the killing of Christians!

Satan acted all incredulous with EVE when he was tempting her to take the forbidden fruit and the false path to supposed Godhood!


24 posted on 10/22/2010 9:44:46 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (True enlightenment occurs when one discovers just how much like God, one is NOT!)
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To: Martin Tell
Tell him to read "Secrets of the Koran".

Also, what good would it do to "speak with an Imam"?
Muslims are told to lie to "the infidel" in order to advance Islam. ("taqiyya")

25 posted on 10/22/2010 9:45:12 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Nachum

Well, rather than argue the details, let me make two points here.

1) There are some people in “the Vatican” who are dissidents and/or idiots. It’s inevitable, as long as people are human, that there will be at least some such types anywhere. But these idiots do not speak for the Pope or for the Church.

2) The Pope and the Vatican as a whole are quite aware that Muslims kill Christians. They do it all over the world, all the time. For that reason, unfortunately, they have to be very careful what they say. Because if they say something too provocative, then the Muslims just go out and kill MORE Christians. Maybe burn down a few churches or schools.

It’s all very well to say that you should stand up to the Muslim killers. And you should. But there’s no particular point in saying something provocative when you know that somebody else is going to get killed for it. Somebody in the Muslim world. Some innocent Christian.

So, the Vatican is between a rock and a hard place. They want to stand up to Islam and defend the Faith, but they don’t want to be the cause of more innocent deaths.

Personally, I am a great admirer of JP II, but I don’t mind saying that I think he made a mistake kissing the Koran. He was trying to show respect for another religion, trying to defuse tensions and hatreds and protect the Christians in North Africa, the Middle East, and all those other Muslim countries. But I’m still not sure it was justified.

It was not a matter of faith and morals. Even good Popes, even great Popes, even saints, make an occasional mistake.

Take off your shoes in a mosque, yes. Kiss the Koran? I personally think that’s a mistake. But if the Koran was shoved at him and he had a choice of kissing it or insulting his hosts, who knows, maybe he did the best thing possible in a nasty situation.


26 posted on 10/22/2010 9:45:47 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
"Would JPII kiss the book of Mormon???"

We will never know, but this we do know, JPII unconditionally loved the Mormon people.

27 posted on 10/22/2010 9:46:10 AM PDT by Natural Law ("opera Christi non deficiunt, sed proficiunt")
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To: mdmathis6; Martin Tell

Oh... I assumed his “facebook friend” was just your typical, dhimmi, multicultural, kissin’ Islam’s ass because they oppose Christianity and the West,

ignorant of the truth, liberal.

Never thought that he might actually BE a Muzzie.


28 posted on 10/22/2010 9:48:06 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

“Your denomination”? Is that anti-Dentite?


29 posted on 10/22/2010 9:48:25 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: ArrogantBustard

:o)


30 posted on 10/22/2010 9:48:31 AM PDT by Prole (Please pray for the families of Chris and Channon. May God always watch over them.)
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To: Nachum

The headline is misleading, but I suppose “Vatican says” attracts more eyeballs than “Obscure Lebanese bishop says”.


31 posted on 10/22/2010 9:49:33 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Nachum

Islam is basically a religion? that says you can kill anyone or everyone who disagrees with you.

That’s not the way grown men and women approach the world.

Perfect “religion” for six year olds, though.


32 posted on 10/22/2010 9:50:47 AM PDT by djf (OK, so you got milk. Got Tula???)
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To: Nachum
"The Koran gives Muslims the right to judge Christians and kill them with Jihad," he said. "It gives orders to impose religion with force, with the sword. For this reason, Muslims don't recognise the freedom of religion among themselves or others."

Says it plainly and clearly.

33 posted on 10/22/2010 9:52:14 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: PetroniusMaximus
JPII was dabbling with syncretism.

Nah. JPII was dabbling with being a ham (muslims, please forgive the image). It was a life long hobby.

34 posted on 10/22/2010 9:52:28 AM PDT by Romulus (The Traditional Latin Mass is the real Youth Mass)
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To: Cicero

JPII also kissed the tarmac at London airport. Which was certainly very gracious of him and made a big impression.

But yes, I don’t think he should have kissed that Koran. Especially since (IIRC) the Bible he gave in return was treated as if it were on fire.


35 posted on 10/22/2010 9:53:45 AM PDT by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: Romulus

“Vatican says”

commits the logic fallacy of “reification”.


36 posted on 10/22/2010 9:56:22 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: MrB; Martin Tell

Perhaps I misread the post...for some reason I thought the arguer (as described by Mr Tell)might be muslim and didn’t focus on the liberal part. Well the taqqyah part still is true via the media and muslim influences on it and the liberal sounds swayed by it.

Sorry for the misreading!


37 posted on 10/22/2010 9:56:41 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (True enlightenment occurs when one discovers just how much like God, one is NOT!)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Your Rules V2.0 are a perfect example of “Epic Fail” ... but thanks again for demonstrating the basis for THE RULES.


38 posted on 10/22/2010 9:57:55 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: mdmathis6

It’s pretty easy to understand liberals and why they believe the things they do.

It all boils down to their overriding desire to feel good (and even superior) about themselves.

To be “multicultural” makes them feel superior to those who are “narrow minded”.


39 posted on 10/22/2010 9:58:25 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a (de)humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: Nachum

No duh.


40 posted on 10/22/2010 9:58:27 AM PDT by Psalm 144
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To: All

Does this really need to be an anti Catholic thread?

If we Christians can’t unite on exposing the truth of the evil that is in the Koran and thus the Islamic faith, we are doomed.

the Athenians and Spartans would even unite to fight the Persians.

This statement by the Archbishop of Antioch is a great and enlightening statement. (I’m guessing that NPR won’t invite him on the show though)


41 posted on 10/22/2010 9:59:31 AM PDT by rbmillerjr
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To: MrB
My "Facebook Friend" actually is a friend, and I know he's not Muslim since he is a member of my church.

While our church is extremely traditionalist and most members are very conservative, we do have a few lib members. He is a divinity student, so by definition he is young, foolish and indoctrinated. I still have hope for him, however.

And he is always posting these outrageous things on Facebook and then claiming to be shocked when folks get angry; he says it's nothing personal. So I decided to take him at his word and challenge his "Islam is peaceful" crap. So far he's been respectful, but one of the lib posters "dropped out" of the conversation since my post was "disturbing."

It's so different from posting on FR!

42 posted on 10/22/2010 10:01:26 AM PDT by Martin Tell (ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it)
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To: rbmillerjr

Btw,

Post this link on your Facebook pages. This needs to see the light of day before the anti Western and anti Christian zombies in the media spin it.


43 posted on 10/22/2010 10:02:04 AM PDT by rbmillerjr
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To: Tamar1973

>>I wouldn’t get to triumphant when there are photos of the late Pope JP2 kissing the Koran. <<

He’s dead. We have a new Pope.
Some of us live in the now.


44 posted on 10/22/2010 10:24:34 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Happy 13th birthday to my Net. Tween no more!)
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To: rbmillerjr

>>Does this really need to be an anti Catholic thread?<<

On FR?
Youbetcha.

They never miss an opportunity.


45 posted on 10/22/2010 10:26:02 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Happy 13th birthday to my Net. Tween no more!)
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To: Romulus

>>Nah. JPII was dabbling with being a ham (muslims, please forgive the image). It was a life long hobby. <<

That is the most realistic statement I have ever read about JPII.
Thanks!


46 posted on 10/22/2010 10:27:41 AM PDT by netmilsmom (Happy 13th birthday to my Net. Tween no more!)
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To: agere_contra
I rather think anyone's kissing the tarmac or the koran are ,at best,silly;but for a Pope ,ridiculous!

Kissing the koran could be seen as a sign of submission;NOT the image you want to convey.Better by far to have graciously accepted the book but omitted the kiss.

Every act of a Pope is not infallible;he is only a very human leader of the Church originally overseen by the apostle Peter.

47 posted on 10/22/2010 10:29:42 AM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a credit card?)
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To: Natural Law

“We will never know, but this we do know, JPII unconditionally loved the Mormon people.”

Doubtless. But the error contained in the Book of Mormon will lead Mormons to destruction. Therefore it is to be despised.

The same is true of the Koran.


48 posted on 10/22/2010 11:15:40 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: theDentist
I try not to. Yes, I know they were aware, but it was like the big elephant in the room. they seldom speak of it, succumbing to Political Correctness.

Right. The vatican only launched a number of crusades and expended a vast treasure in the effort to stop the ragheads.

49 posted on 10/22/2010 11:21:09 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: ArrogantBustard

Funny thing is, I have often defended the Pope or the Catholic Church here - when their pronouncements or actions are in line with the the New Testament.

But I have noticed certain Catholics on this board, where out of simple arrogance or a bloated sense of victimization I can not be sure, will defend the actions of the Catholic Church no matter what. Even well past the point of absurdity.

That is because, for these people, truth is defined by “the group”. For those like myself, truth is defined by “principle”.

In this situation, the principle is that you don’t kiss and thereby honor or hold in esteem a body of teaching that will take people straight to eternal hell.


50 posted on 10/22/2010 11:28:06 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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