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Wind Energy's Ghosts
American Thinker ^ | February 15, 2010 | Andrew Walden

Posted on 10/24/2010 10:12:38 AM PDT by epithermal

European wind developers are fleeing the EU's expiring wind subsidies, shuttering factories, laying off workers, and leaving billions of Euros of sovereign debt and a continent-wide financial crisis in their wake. But their game is not over. Already they are tapping a new vein of lucre from the taxpayers and ratepayers of the United States.

-snip-

In the best wind spots on earth, over 14,000 turbines were simply abandoned. Spinning, post-industrial junk which generates nothing but bird kills.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: energy; envirowackos; globalwarming; green; pork; waste; wind
Excellent article. Assuming no government subsidies, if the cost of dismantling old wind turbines were factored into their economics, wind power makes even less sense to me.
1 posted on 10/24/2010 10:12:39 AM PDT by epithermal
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To: epithermal

How ironic that certain people don’t mind all the dead owls in exchange for wind energy, but we can’t cut down a tree where they might live.


2 posted on 10/24/2010 10:18:18 AM PDT by kevslisababy
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To: epithermal
ALL alternative, "green" energy sources hide 75% of the costs, both initial and ongoing. Once the taxpayer subsidies dry up, they move on to the next scam.

Watch "Carbon Credits," and your wallet. This one doesn't even pretend to provide "free" anything.
It is an unashamed protection extortion racket "to prevent really really bad things from happening, if you don't pay us."

3 posted on 10/24/2010 10:23:32 AM PDT by Publius6961 ("In 1964 the War on Poverty Began --- Poverty won.")
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To: kevslisababy
How ironic that certain people don’t mind all the dead owls in exchange for wind energy, but we can’t cut down a tree where they might live.

The correct word is "hypocritical."

4 posted on 10/24/2010 10:25:21 AM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: Publius6961

Excellent points.

If the market doesn’t want it, isn’t willing to pay for it at a profit for the produces/suppliers, it is NOT SUSTAINABLE.

Amazing how these leftists scream about what is not sustainable but then completely turn a blind eye when that which they support is proven to be unsustainable.

Hell is too cold and too brief for these bastards.


5 posted on 10/24/2010 10:29:39 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: kevslisababy
...we can’t cut down a tree where they might live.

Or, "might have lived" if they hadn't been chopped and clubbed by the windmill blades. :-)

6 posted on 10/24/2010 10:33:01 AM PDT by meyer (Tax the productive to carry the freeloaders - What is it with democrats and slavery?)
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To: epithermal

If they can figure out the storage issue then it becomes a lot more viable in certain circumstances. The subsidy is a joke though


7 posted on 10/24/2010 10:33:22 AM PDT by misterrob (Thug Life....now showing at a White House near you....)
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To: epithermal
In February 2008, large scale blackouts were narrowly averted in Texas when a weather front idled most of the state's windmills. Read article here

I have often driven by a virtual forest of windmills in southwestern Minnesota and have on more than one occasion seen every one from horizon to horizon standing idle. There is simply no way wind power could ever be a reliable or efficient means of generating electricity.

8 posted on 10/24/2010 10:42:34 AM PDT by The Great RJ (The Bill of Rights: Another bill members of Congress haven't read.)
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To: epithermal

We have a forest of these windmills in eastern New Mexico. It is my understanding that the ranch land is leased to the government at $58,000. per windmill, per year. How is that sustainable, or profitable?
Minor issue: Why raise cattle? Why feed the nation? Why not destroy one of the most conservative segments of society and put them on the government tit?


9 posted on 10/24/2010 10:42:36 AM PDT by WestwardHo (Whom the god would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: bill1952

Yes, I stand corrected.


10 posted on 10/24/2010 10:44:32 AM PDT by kevslisababy
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To: Publius6961

NJ spent tens of millions to put up solar panels on tens of acres to generate enough power annually to power only 35 homes, when the same amount of money can be spent building a small natural gas plant that will provide power for 130,000 homes. I always tell my green friends, how long do you think the US can compete economically with solar against a country who uses natural gas???? When jobs are gone, the tax revenues to finance gov liberal programs are also gone. Some of my liberal green friends are starting to make the connection between healthy economy and its implication on tax revenues needed to fund liberal gov programs. I may not have turned them into complete small gov conservatives, but at least this is in the right direction to make them understand taxes do not drop out of the sky.


11 posted on 10/24/2010 10:56:38 AM PDT by Fee
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To: misterrob

Maybe developments in battery technology will allow the wind energy to get off the government tit? They are slowly beginning to advance battery tech, such as this article:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-10/ru-ss101310.php

I remember reading in Science magazine about a molten salt battery that is much more efficient, but can’t find a link to it anymore. I think development work was going on in Europe.

In some places other energy storage schemes may make more
sense than batteries, like storing compressed air underground, flywheels, etc.


12 posted on 10/24/2010 10:56:56 AM PDT by epithermal
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To: Fee

Just wait till this stupid boondoggle is over. 20 years from now those rusting motionless monstrocities will be a nice legacy to Obama.


13 posted on 10/24/2010 11:03:56 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

“Sustainability” is religous doctrine for the lefties, but the situation is much worse than what you guys have rightly pointed out.

Just about everything the Left pushes most strongly is unsustainable, but not only do they not see that, they refuse to believe it.

To mention a few:

Social security - 10 to 20 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilites: unsustainable.

Medicare - 50 - 70 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities: unsustainable.

Public employee union pensions: tens of trillions of dollars of unfunded liabilities: unsustainalbe.’’

Govenrment motors: tens of billions of dollars of debt, with declining sales and exploitative union contracts: unsustainable.

The federal budget - trillion dollar deficits, with 100’s of billions in interest payments each year, as far as the eye can see: unsustainable.

These pr*cks will rag on me to use a cloth bag in the grocery store, but when it comes to consequential public policy, it’s all unsustainable.


14 posted on 10/24/2010 11:28:40 AM PDT by Stosh
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To: epithermal

Yeah, those dead turbines certainly are much more beautiful than oil wells. sarc. they look almost identical.


15 posted on 10/24/2010 11:38:56 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: epithermal

There are spans of days when the turbines aorund here do not turn, so batteries had better have a helluva lot of charge capacity. That is why the city in which I live has natural gas plants and the Greenies in Austin get the pleasure of the wind turbines (never mind that about 1/4 of the generated power is lost in transmission from here to Austin).


16 posted on 10/24/2010 11:46:00 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

At least pumpjacks are not 300+ feet tall. :-)


17 posted on 10/24/2010 11:47:14 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: epithermal

ping


18 posted on 10/24/2010 11:47:17 AM PDT by Parmy
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To: Fee

Good for confronting your lib friends, maybe sanity is catching. Here is a statement regarding wind energy that is also troubling:

““In the longer run, the intermittency of wind and the fact that wind generation satisfies base-load demand more than intermediate or peaking loads should discourage investment in base-load coal and nuclear capacity,” he said.”

http://www.ogj.com/index/blogs/health-safety-environment/blogs/OGJ/health-safety-environment-blog/post987_1061082135764868141.html

So, in this scenario all the wasted money on wind is delaying investment in coal and nuclear which is spooky if it comes true.


19 posted on 10/24/2010 11:51:31 AM PDT by epithermal
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To: Army Air Corps

And they don’t generate those low-frequency booms that the turbine blades create. I’ve read reports of this booming sound being heard 3-5 miles away.


20 posted on 10/24/2010 11:56:54 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Come visit some of the windfarms around here. You get a combination of a low-frequency whirring combined with a “whoosh” from the blades. Also, there have been farms and ranches that have had the joy of fires from the transmission lines when they have been snapped in wind storms.


21 posted on 10/24/2010 12:01:16 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Army Air Corps

I am no fan of wind energy, but if, and only if, it is economically feasible would I consider it. As for batteries, I agree they may not be the answer. But, maybe compressed air storage would work. It appears Texas is playing with it because of all the old salt dome mines there:

http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_wind-reserve.htm

Speaking of Austin, I read an interesting discussion in the book “Gusher of Lies” that said the nuke plant nearby was even cheaper than natural gas when we had that gas price spike a few years back. I would bank on nuclear before wind.


22 posted on 10/24/2010 12:02:44 PM PDT by epithermal
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Our local Natural Gas powerplants are quiter.


23 posted on 10/24/2010 12:03:54 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Our local Natural Gas powerplants are quieter.


24 posted on 10/24/2010 12:04:06 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: epithermal

That is the problem, it is not feasible for commercial grade power needs in a free market system. If you live in a rural area and wish to generate your own power, then it can play a role. Our cities and industries need constant, reliable baseload capacity. Also, most wind farms are far, far away from the final customer, so you lose a lot of generated power from source to customer. Let us not even get into security issues related to windfarms.


25 posted on 10/24/2010 12:08:58 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: epithermal

I, too, would place my bets on nuclear power before commercial wind and solar.


26 posted on 10/24/2010 12:11:44 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: epithermal

bump


27 posted on 10/24/2010 12:13:36 PM PDT by VOA
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To: bill1952; kevslisababy
"The correct word is hypocritical"

Actually the correct word is is misinformation or mythology.

Altamont Pass windmills kill about 5000 birds per year.

550 million birds are killed each year by buildings
130 million birds are killed each year by powerlines
80 million birds are killed each year by cars
67 million birds are killed each year by pesticides
nobody knows how many are killed by feral cats.

28 posted on 10/24/2010 1:04:52 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

How do you know all of this?


29 posted on 10/24/2010 5:43:55 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: epithermal
Sodium-sulfur, perhaps? There is at least one experimental installation going in Texas, IIRC. Hitachi?

However, the utilities folks in the Smart Grid development effort (the one directed by NIST under the auspices of the White House per the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007) are looking at electric vehicle batteries to bridge the relatively short gap between a sudden reduction of wind/solar and when they can get other generation spun up and online.

30 posted on 10/24/2010 6:30:56 PM PDT by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: misterrob

It is not a storage problem so much as it is a transportation problem. After they build them they need to connect them to the regular electric grid. Most of the time that is expensive. Ask T. Boone Pickens who owns the largest wind farm in the country. I wouldn’t be surprised if his don’t go silent if he can’t get someone else to lay the lines for him.


31 posted on 10/24/2010 7:30:01 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: Parmy
"How do you know all of this"

Easy, look it up on the internet.

Do a search using the key words birds killed by windmills cars buildings power transmission lines pesticides cats

32 posted on 10/25/2010 6:02:44 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: The Great RJ

“ERCOT reported that wind power production plummeted Tuesday evening from about 1,700 megawatts to about 300 megawatts.”

About the same as a nuclear power plant tripping off-line.


33 posted on 10/25/2010 6:24:22 AM PDT by SeeSac
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
The Texas PUC authorized the construction of the new windlines and the contracts were awarded in Jan 2009. That was about 2500 miles of lines awarded to about 7 different companies at a cost of 5 billion.

The collection portion moves among and around the CREZs collecting the power generated by the windfarms that will be located within the numerous CREZs. Pickins' wind farm was or is to be located in the Roberts County CREZ.

The cross state portion are two lines, one to DFW, and the other to San Antonio Austin.

The distribution portion would be those lines that split off the main trunk lines that distribute the power to various areas around DFW and SAA.

Currently the project is in site approval with the PUC and the projected completion date is in 2013.

34 posted on 10/25/2010 6:37:41 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Thanks for the excellent information. That caused me to do a little research on my own. It seems that things are moving along pretty well and, as you said, have been in the works for several years. It seems the only possible speed bumps ahead are any actions by environmental groups to impede the progress.

The only thing that might appease them is to put the windmills themselves underground. :-)


35 posted on 10/25/2010 10:16:45 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government)
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To: epithermal

Wind power juts like ethonal production is probably workable on a small scale right at the location, such as out on a large corn farm etc where you dont have to transport the silage and the power can be used right there. But these sort of technologies just dont scale up up and the greeneies dont seem to be able to get their minds around that.

There is simply no way wind or solar could ever supply reliably or not, all of our energy needs.


36 posted on 10/25/2010 11:57:03 AM PDT by valkyry1
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To: Ben Ficklin

How about giving some reference sites to check out?


37 posted on 10/25/2010 12:13:48 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: Parmy

Go ahead


38 posted on 10/25/2010 1:03:33 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: kevslisababy
dead owls

I've said for years the shredded poultry downstream should be gathered as food for the victims of the Baraqqi depression.

39 posted on 10/25/2010 1:06:46 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Ben Ficklin

Go ahead

Go ahead and what?


40 posted on 10/25/2010 6:37:55 PM PDT by Parmy
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To: Parmy

I thought you had something you wanted to add, a link or something?


41 posted on 10/26/2010 6:10:45 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Looking for your links?


42 posted on 10/27/2010 9:24:01 AM PDT by Parmy
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To: Army Air Corps

Well...( no pun intended..) they can be little noisy bassturds though...


43 posted on 10/27/2010 9:36:32 AM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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