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Mikhail Gorbachev: victory in Afghanistan is 'impossible'
Telegraph ^ | 10/27/10

Posted on 10/27/2010 8:23:43 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster

Mikhail Gorbachev: victory in Afghanistan is 'impossible'

Mikhail Gorbachev, the former leader of the Soviet Union, has warned that Afghanistan risks turning into another Vietnam, telling Nato that victory is impossible.

Published: 10:42AM BST 27 Oct 2010

Mr Gorbachev, who pulled Russian troops out of Afghanistan in 1989 after a 10-year war, said the US had no alternative but to withdraw troops.

"Victory is impossible in Afghanistan. [Barack] Obama is right to pull the troops out. No matter how difficult it will be," he told the BBC.

Mr Gorbachev added that as the Soviets prepared to withdraw from Afghanistan, the US was training militants, "the same ones who today are terrorising Afghanistan and more and more of Pakistan".

He said that because of this, withdrawal would be more difficult.

"But what's the alternative - another Vietnam? Sending in half-a-million troops? That wouldn't work."

His comments came amid news that Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, will attend a Nato summit next month, to discuss plans for Russian forces to return to Afghanistan.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; gorbachev; putin; russia; sovietunion; vietnam

1 posted on 10/27/2010 8:23:45 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Only impossible because we didn’t nuke the dump from the start. If we had used tactical nukes on the border of Pakistan and didn’t give them 30 days of negotiations and deadlines with the Taliban...this thing would have been done years ago.


2 posted on 10/27/2010 8:25:01 AM PDT by My Favorite Headache (In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

What exactly is ‘victory in Afghanistan’?


3 posted on 10/27/2010 8:25:11 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Mikhail Gorbachev: A Harry Reid wannabe.


4 posted on 10/27/2010 8:27:17 AM PDT by dartuser ("The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has limits.")
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Wasn’t Obama going to get OBL? I haven’t heard his name mentioned by a Democrat since... well since, 2008.


5 posted on 10/27/2010 8:28:05 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: stuartcr

Karzai has victory figured out.
He gets millions from the US and more millions from Iran.


6 posted on 10/27/2010 8:28:33 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Impeachment !)
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To: My Favorite Headache

This area has always been the subject of proxy wars with pawkeestan and Iran being the principals. Take out the principals and the issue is cleared up.


7 posted on 10/27/2010 8:30:17 AM PDT by himno hero
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To: dartuser

Why doesn’t Gorby go back to Pizza Hut? His time has come and gone. And what kind of good communist makes Pizza Hut commercials in the first place???????


8 posted on 10/27/2010 8:30:41 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Oh cut them some slack, even Walter Mondale and Mike Dukakis get to make the rounds this close to elections. LOL


9 posted on 10/27/2010 8:32:24 AM PDT by SanFranDan
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To: rhombus

Hillary Clinton mocked Bush and the search for Bin Laden, once saying, “how hard is it to find the tallest man in Afghanistan”, referring to the fact that Bin Laden is 6 foot 5.

I would love to ask Hillary and Obama how the search for Bin Laden is going. Don’t you love it how Democrats are outraged about something when Republicans are in power, but when they themselves get into power, the same subject doesn’t matter anymore.


10 posted on 10/27/2010 8:32:28 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: My Favorite Headache

A couple of clusters would put an end to it.


11 posted on 10/27/2010 8:32:43 AM PDT by FES0844
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To: stuartcr
Exactly. When you have a dumbass CIC that says, "I'm always worried about using the word 'victory,' because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur," you know we're in trouble.

If victory, i.e. the complete subjugation of the enemy and their will/ability to resist is not the goal then we need to leave.
12 posted on 10/27/2010 8:32:52 AM PDT by mrmeyer ("When brute force is on the march, compromise is the red carpet." Ayn Rand)
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To: dartuser
Well, Smilin' Mike did bring them Pizza Hut.




13 posted on 10/27/2010 8:34:47 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (I'm shocked! Shocked to find out that gambling is going on in here!)
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To: rhombus

Gorby is right . And yes should have nuked the mtns and boarder long ago. GET THE F—K OUT OF THAT GOD FORSAKEN S—T HOLE . NOW.


14 posted on 10/27/2010 8:35:18 AM PDT by Billk
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To: mrmeyer

The only way to do that is to use to nukes on civilians. The end result will be to be put Bagman Karzai in the permanent saddle. If that is the option, I say leave now. Afghanistan is riddled with the bones of failed conquerers.


15 posted on 10/27/2010 8:36:38 AM PDT by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: My Favorite Headache

Our military has been neutered ever since the ridiculous ROEs were implemented. If we conducted this war in a manner meant on DEVASTATING the enemy and breaking his will to resist, we could actually have WON this war many years ago...


16 posted on 10/27/2010 8:38:05 AM PDT by EnigmaticAnomaly ("Mantra of the left: 'It's only okay when WE do it.'")
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To: FES0844

And end to what? If your goal is to enshire bagman Karzai’s pro-Iran regime, a “couple of clusters” wouldn’t “end” anything.


17 posted on 10/27/2010 8:38:38 AM PDT by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: stuartcr

How can you have “victory” when you have a muslim in the white hut? It is all about get as many Americans/ european christians killed to amuse Islam and the Saudi king. Keep watching TV suckers. TV supports Islam and O.


18 posted on 10/27/2010 8:39:43 AM PDT by Frantzie (Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
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To: EnigmaticAnomaly
If we conducted this war in a manner meant on DEVASTATING the enemy and breaking his will to resist, we could actually have WON this war many years ago.

What do you mean by "win?" Proping up Karzai's pro-Iran Islamtic kleptocracy?

19 posted on 10/27/2010 8:40:29 AM PDT by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: stuartcr

When the Taliban wants to sit down and talk peace, you are getting pretty close.


20 posted on 10/27/2010 8:42:42 AM PDT by Jolla
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To: Captain Kirk

In its long history, Afghanistan has never been conquered. Even the Russians with their impressive military learned that the hard way. Boots on the ground will never win in that country and you can’t nuke them back to the stone age because they still live in the stone age. Send a few well placed tactical nukes as a gift and then get the hell out....red


21 posted on 10/27/2010 8:43:00 AM PDT by rednek ("Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.")
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To: Billk

We should dial back the strategy in Afghanistan... keep a light footprint - just enough to thin the herd occasionally. Oh wait, we were doing that up until 2008 when Afghanistan became “the real war” and the Democrats vowed to get OBL. Hah!


22 posted on 10/27/2010 8:47:05 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Here is my personal war philosophy:

Win in Four
Lose in Ten

I mean of course, in four years or ten. We either take the Sherman approach, or the Marquis of Queensberry rules.


23 posted on 10/27/2010 8:47:56 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Nuke Afghanistan for Morbid....


24 posted on 10/27/2010 8:48:37 AM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: Captain Kirk

We should have reduced the country to blood, bodies, and rubble and then left. The Muzzies would be too busy rebuilding to engage in jihad.


25 posted on 10/27/2010 8:49:20 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Within the limits of what is culturally acceptable in the west - at the moment - the Soviet Union’s Jimmy Carter is correct.


26 posted on 10/27/2010 8:52:07 AM PDT by Psalm 144
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To: EnigmaticAnomaly

Not just that, but we aren’t taking into account the Eastern mentality. We never did in Vietnam and we never did any analyses of how to understand their thinking process. They are more subtle, sadistic, and clever. Instead of breaking the doors down, they figure out to unpick the lock or undo the hinges and go out through the other end of the door. This is what we are dealing with, not this ‘fair fight’ mentality that we are transferring onto an enitrely different battlefield.


27 posted on 10/27/2010 8:53:45 AM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Captain Kirk

“Afghanistan is riddled with the bones of failed conquerors.”

The Mongols had the best results (and policy), but in the end they were infected with Islam from that contact. So, yeah.

Afghanistan is were foreign power goes to die. No wonder BO zeroed in on the place.


28 posted on 10/27/2010 8:57:08 AM PDT by Psalm 144
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I guess the concept of victory is really relative.


29 posted on 10/27/2010 8:58:58 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: rednek

“In its long history, Afghanistan has never been conquered.”

Once. By Genghis Khan. But the Golden Horde was infected with Islam in the process.


30 posted on 10/27/2010 8:59:33 AM PDT by Psalm 144
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To: My Favorite Headache

Bammy himself done said that the real cancer is in Pakistan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/28/AR2010092805092.html) Cancer should often be treated with radiation.

And I was surprised to hear old Paul Harvey state, some time ago, that he believed today’s Muslim Persian/Arab/Turk to be simply incapable of creating, supporting, maintaining, and enjoying a modern, open, participatory civilization. I was shocked and disappointed to hear him say it, at the time, but I find myself agreeing more, year by year.


31 posted on 10/27/2010 8:59:40 AM PDT by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

32 posted on 10/27/2010 9:02:17 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

“Mikhail Gorbachev, the former leader of the Soviet Union, has warned that Afghanistan risks turning into another Vietnam”

Sionce we have about 50,000 bodies to go, I’m gonna say no. Unless he simply means it’s going to be a loss. But it’s not like Vietnam was the U.S.’s only ever loss, so the comparison is superficial at best.


33 posted on 10/27/2010 9:05:03 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Captain Kirk
Actually, Afghanistan was the only uber fanatic Islamist nation because of the Taliban. We bomb them, and got the Taliban out. Now we are allowing the Taliban back after ten years and billions of tax payers dollars.

The proper thing for the US to do is to leave. Just as simple as that; pack, and leave! No victory laps or nothing. Just say the Afghani people are not ready to join the seventeen century yet.

34 posted on 10/27/2010 9:10:39 AM PDT by phobia-dude
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To: mrmeyer

How do you subjugate an enemy, that is essentially the whole population that isn’t even in the same country?


35 posted on 10/27/2010 9:13:49 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: Jolla

They’re not even all from the same country. How would they all get together for a talk?


36 posted on 10/27/2010 9:16:25 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: Billk

Gorby may or may not be right about the U.S. not winning, but it’s absolutely asinine to say victory in Afghanistan is “impossible.” He’s only saying that, obviously, because it excuses the Soviet Union’s incompetence. If the enemy was invulnerable, then there’s no shame in the Evil Empire having foundered.

The Invincible Afghanistan concept is a myth. It is, along with unfortunates like Israel, Korea, and Sicily, one of the most trampeled and abused regions in the history of the world. There is something to the “quagmire” thing, though. Power derives from being so god-forsaken that no one wants to exert the effort to ensure longterm administration.

We all know the U.S. could subdue Afghanistan, easily, if it wanted to. And that’s without nuking and leaving. Pick a taliban figure, make him king, and sit back and watch. But no, we’re all confused. Mixing force with social welfare. One foot in and one foot out. Wanting to leave yet pretending like we’d stay to the crack of doom. Capable of crushing everyone yet committed to “democracy” yet not trusting of anyone democratically elected yet stick with corrupt officials for lack of a choice yet hating it yet continuing to hold our noses.

When you come down to it, we’re just not happy imperialists. Which is not to say victory is impossible. hitler coulda done it in a jiffy.


37 posted on 10/27/2010 9:18:41 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: rednek

Genghis Khan conquered Afghanistan. Of course he’s #1 ON THE LIST OF EXTREME BUTT-KICKERS.


38 posted on 10/27/2010 9:26:57 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: stuartcr
Ideally speaking, adopt a total war/total victory, nothing is off the table platform a la WWII. Unleash the entire might of the U.S. Military. No more PC bullsh*t R.O.E., no more off limit areas to attack/pursue the enemy similar to what was done in Nam, no more court martials for U.S. warriors doing their job, no more obtaining permission to return fire when under fire or when observing enemy movement. If the enemy is in a mosque directing sniper fire from minarets, give the building the Monte Cassino treatment.

Supplies coming in from Iran? Bomb the supply lines. Supplies coming from Pakistan? Bomb the supply lines. Step up drone and Spec Ops in Waziristan and trouble areas outside of the Afghan border. Spend less time worrying about building infastructure and giving the Taliban a seat at the table in return for their cooperation, and more time killing the enemy.


39 posted on 10/27/2010 9:44:23 AM PDT by mrmeyer ("When brute force is on the march, compromise is the red carpet." Ayn Rand)
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To: mrmeyer

How do you distinguish who is the enemy and who isn’t?


40 posted on 10/27/2010 9:50:33 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: mrmeyer

“Ideally speaking, adopt a total war/total victory, nothing is off the table platform a la WWII. Unleash the entire might of the U.S. Military. No more PC bullsh*t”

ABSOLUTELY agree with you!
All wars since WWII which the US has been involved have been fought as a scrimmage rather than playing to win. In addition, to fighting to win, we MUST stay in the conquered country at the minimum of a generation to change attitudes and the culture.
If we as a country are unwilling to give it our “all”, we should NOT send American boys over for ANY reason.


41 posted on 10/27/2010 10:22:34 AM PDT by texteacher
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To: stuartcr

“How do you distinguish who is the enemy and who isn’t?”

In which American war victory did we worry about distinguishing the enemy from a non enemy in the country on which we declared war?
If we have to distinguish enemy from non enemy maybe we should wait until they are all our enemy.


42 posted on 10/27/2010 10:30:39 AM PDT by texteacher
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To: texteacher

The key here, is...’the country we declared war on’. I don’t believe we’ve declared war on any country, have we?


43 posted on 10/27/2010 12:28:29 PM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: stuartcr

That is the real question, how to define victory.


44 posted on 10/27/2010 1:18:51 PM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: stuartcr

“... I don’t believe we’ve declared war on any country, have we?”

No, only military engagements.


45 posted on 10/27/2010 3:01:21 PM PDT by texteacher
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To: rednek

Afghanistan was conquered by the Greeks, the Parthians, the Persians, the Huns and the Mongols.


46 posted on 10/27/2010 6:17:20 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tublecane
I dont believe in fighting /sacrificing american blood in a cause that we are not in to win . There is no excuse for not using all our power to win other wise we should not be there at all , and as you stated we could win in short order if we didnt have a bunch of PUSSIES IN CHARGE, Complete and total victory no matter what , or leave NOW . To fight a war in this manor is ABSURD .
47 posted on 10/31/2010 8:31:08 PM PDT by Billk (Bill Kay)
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To: TigerLikesRooster

Gorby is a lib idiot. Vistory is impossible for him only.
Soviet troops had a different approach so Taleban was shitting their pants in caves most of the time before Gorby desided to go home.
And still commies had power for a few more years there.

The main problem with A-stan is it is not worth to hold a boot there. That is the main reason why one haven’t ‘conquered’ that. If one had a will both Russians, US or even France could vaporise A-stan in a year.


48 posted on 11/08/2010 7:09:35 PM PST by cunning_fish
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