Skip to comments.ATF position on pistol grip 'shotguns' creates new danger
Posted on 11/15/2010 11:27:57 PM PST by Neil E. Wright
An interpretation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives that pistol grip shotguns are not shotguns has created an unforeseen legal liability for owners of such firearms. ATFs Nov. 2009 FFL Newsletter declared:
Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example, firearms that come equipped with a pistol grip in place of the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA.
Heres another wrinkle, from Mike Vanderboegh at Sipsey Street Irregulars:
An October 27, 2010, letter from the Firearms Technology Branch ruled that such a firearm, with a 17" barrel and 26-1/4" overall length, was not subject to the National Firearms Act.
You can click here to read the letter.
That would seem to indicate theres no issue with violating National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR) requirements, right? No worries if you own one, or want to buy one ?
Not so fast. If the pistol grip firearms are not shotguns, what are they?
(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...
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My local gunshop says they have to run them as a handgun. I also wonder what the ATF says about the 410/45 revolvers.
Let’s call them “muskets”. That way they’ll be protected by the Second Amendment/s
“An October 27, 2010, letter from the Firearms Technology Branch ruled that such a firearm, with a 17” barrel...”
Don’t barrels need to be 18” to be OK? Is it the grip or the combination of length and grip. And, no, this is NOT an invitation to a thousand length and grip jokes ...
How about we outlaw the ATF?
ATF letters are just opinion letters, whether viewed positively or negatively to the recipient. They’re not rulings. They’re just the notion of whatever junior G-man was opening the mail that day combined with the offhand recollection of whoever was passing by in the hallway for another cup of Yuban.
I am also aware of Mike Vanderbogh’s angles in trying to finagle our way into getting the NFRTR reopened, but he’s become more than a bit of a pain in the ass on some other gun boards I frequent. Whenever I see a link to the Sipsey Street Irregulars, I think “Oh, not this guy and his dubious ideas again...” right before they shitcan his posts.
Or open the convenience store.
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And yet another government agency that receives too much funding volunteers to have its budget cut. Let’s see we have the IRS volunteering, the EPA, and now BATF. We’ll have the budget balanced real soon at this rate.
I told him if that was the case, only documents produced on a Printing Press or using a Quill Pen are protected by the First Amendment.
So I guess total gun control can come when the ATF defines hand guns and long guns and knives etc as not arms.
If someone wants to come over and argue it with me I'll gladly use mine like a baseball bat and beat them senseless with it so that they can leave feeling satisfied that they're right about it not being a shotgun. Is that helpful?
Okay, so what are we speculating that he’s right about? Last time I saw a post of his, he was thinking that he was being clever in trying to announce that thousands of unregistered machine guns are in the hands of Americans and that The Brady Campaign should get all hot and bothered about them, but what he was really talking about were legally grandfathered semiautomatic guns designed to fire from an open bolt that have been prohibited from manufacture since 1982. His idea is that if the gun controllers petitioned the director of the BATFE for an amnesty on these guns, they’d somehow get it and thus thousands and thousands of newly transferable machine guns would be added to the NFRTR.
Oh, how original. Like nobody but Mike Vanderboegh has thought of that in the last 30 years since these guns fell under the peculiar ‘grandfather’ status.
In any case, I don’t want that man speaking for me and playing his shenanigans.
And then there’s the Rossi Ranch Hand, which looks a lot like a sawed-off, lever-action rifle, but qualifies as a pistol under their ridiculous rules. I haven’t figured that one out yet, but thought about buying one, just for spite. But I suppose there will be upcoming rules against it.
Actually that is not a shotgun ... it is classified as a handgun. Never mind that it fires .410 shotgun rounds. It's like Thompson-Center making handguns that fire rifle rounds.
Nice gun though. We never could keep one in the gun store for more than a week .... and for a long time they were hard to get from our suppliers. I spent 2 months trying to get one for a customer ... couldn't get one before I had to close down the store and sell off the inventory to another gun store after the owner died.
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Where does the 18” begin? At the open end of the breech or the barrel end of the chamber”
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