Tahoe man kills 500 lb. bear in self-defense(CA)

theunion.com ^ | 30 November, 2010 | Matthew Renda

[EEDUDE]

You forgot to mention that he was working on his GED!

[Mouton]

You know, I once saw a movie of a guy killing an elephant with a bow and arrow. Would have bet it could not be done. Would have lost that bet but at least I was not standing in front of it had it not been successful. I use bird shot for pheasants, rabbits and squirrels, nothing more.

[GladesGuru]

I do hope he kept the skin, claws, skull, and the prime cuts.

[DuncanWaring]

Ping.

[calcowgirl]

... the Hunters were well within their legal rights when shooting the bear

For clarity, it should read "the restaraunteurs were well within their legal rights..."
Had the Hunters (big H) been hunters (little H), they'd probably be prosecuted
(or persecuted) for unlawful shooting.

[marktwain]

“Recent tests I have seen with bird shot, 12 gauge, show not enough penetration especially through heavy clothing.”

How much do wish to wager that the tests you mention were at distances far greater than 20 feet?

At distances under that, bird shot acts like a prefragmented bullet. The individual shot pellets reinforce each other and create a devasting wound.

Try your own tests. Buy a heavy coat and pair of Jeans at the local thrift store, drape them over a 1/2 inch plywood board at 20 feet or less, then shoot them with a 12 gauge load of bird shot. You will be amazed.

[marktwain]

“Recent tests I have seen with bird shot, 12 gauge, show not enough penetration especially through heavy clothing.”

How much do wish to wager that the tests you mention were at distances far greater than 20 feet?

At distances under that, bird shot acts like a prefragmented bullet. The individual shot pellets reinforce each other and create a devastating wound.

Try your own tests. Buy a heavy coat and pair of Jeans at the local thrift store, drape them over a 1/2 inch plywood board at 20 feet or less, then shoot them with a 12 gauge load of bird shot. You will be amazed. Here is a link from someone who did similar tests:

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=47405

[Mouton]

Ballistic tests done by FBI for example have led to conclusion one needs 12 inches of penetration to ensure fracture of the Central Nervous System. I am not questioning fact bird shot, probably 4s, produce a severe wound and are lethal at very close range, but I prefer to stop the perpetrator from functioning as quick as possible. Going beyond that, in the instant news item, the perp was a 500 lb bear. Seems to me faced with such a critter, I would want to ensure a kill.

There is a site, Box of Truth, or some such where the guy did many penetration tests and his conclusion was bird shot is not effective for defensive purposes. Not sure how distant he was shooting but it was not long range.

Chuck Hawks agrees with you about the use of bird shot, 4’s, at very close range inside a home yet he backs up his first few 4’s with buckshot 00 for his personal situation.

FWIW for my personal use, I have a double 20 gauge with 3 buck and I would not wish to face a bear with it albeit I am confident it is extremely effective for home defense. The only bear we have seen around here was 350lb black bear five years ago which found its way onto the island and found its way off without getting shot or apprehended!

[marktwain]

Bird shot would not be my first choice as a defensive load. I think we have agreement with that. The information that I wanted to convey is that bird shot, at close range, is extremely effective and deadly. People often think that because it is “bird shot”, it is not very dangerous. This is not correct.

The problem with bird shot for defense is that if you have to fire at any significant distance, it looses effectiveness very quickly. At very short ranges (20 feet or less), the size of the shot makes little difference.

If I had to use bird shot for defense against a bear, I would aim for the head. At close range, a bird shot load from a 12 gauge will turn even a big bear's head to mush. The chances of bird shot, at close range, being deflected by the skull, are effectively nil.