Robert E. Lee: Remembering An American Legend

Cumming Home ^ | January 4, 2011 | Calvin E. Johnson, Jr.

[cowboyway]

I'm glad we agree that Lee was an honorable man; it seems to be the settled opinion of the leading men in American life ever since, and most of the people in the South.

"General Lee's character has been an example to succeeding generations, making the restoration of his citizenship an event in which every American can take pride."---President Gerald Ford, August 5, 1975

[WhiskeyX]

“Lee had resigned his commission, That oath was null and void.”

Taking a commission as an officer in the U.S. Army and swearing of the oath is a lifetime commitment whether or not the officer resigns the commission. Resignation of a commission is subject to approval by the U.S. Government and the U.S. Congress. After the resignation of an officer’s commission, the former officer is still subject to recall for military service as an officer or as an enlisted man in the United States Army for the former officer’s remaining lifetime. Robert E. Lee knew these facts as a cadet at West Point Military Academy, and he was responsible for informing every new cadet of this fact of military life in his later capacity as Superintendant of West Point Military Academy. When Robert E. Lee tendered his resignation from the U.S. Army, he did so knowing full well the U.S. Government was not obligated to accept Lee’s resignation of his commission, accept any derogation of his oath of office, or excuse him from recall for military service in the U.S. Army as an officer or an enlisted man.

[WhiskeyX]

Additionally:

“Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses.”
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.

[soakncider]

"Lee was a loyal patriot of his native state of Virginia. In those days, loyalty to your state held primacy over that towards the Federal Union, which was supposed to serve the interests of the states, not the other way around"...

Well said!

[cowboyway]

“Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the Western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the Eastern.” He wrote that if those of the Mississippi valley should “see their interest in separation, why should we take side with our Atlantic rather than our Mississippi descendants? It is the elder and the younger son differing. God bless them both, & keep them in Union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better.” -—Thomas Jefferson

[sergeantdave]

See post #155

[curiosity]

Out of curiosity, do Texans with Mexican roots revere the memory of General Santa Anna (of Alamo fame) and celebrate his birthday?

In point of fact, most spanish speakers residing in Texas War of Independence from Mexico sided with the those who wanted independence.

[curiosity]

1. Robert E. Lee did not betray his oath as an officer. He resigned his commission and returned home.

Yes he did. You aren't released from your oath when you resign.

2. Robert E. Lee, and many other Christian men in the South had no love for slavery. In fact, Lee freed his slaves and Stonewall Jackson was opposed to slavery.

Lee was ambivalent about slavery, at best. He inherited some slaves upon the death of his father-in-law. Yes, he evenutally freed them, but only because his father-in-law's will required it after a number of years. Lee held on to those slaves as long as he could.

I'm not aware of any documented evidence of Jackson being opposed to slavery. He did set up a school for blacks, which was against state law at the time.

The South fought a losing battle against encroaching federal power.

Nonsense. The South rebelled because it feared the policies advocated by Lincoln and the Republican party would eventually lead to the demise of slavery and the plantation economy. Jeff Davis and virtually all other leaders of the rebellion openly admitted as much.

[curiosity]

Conservatives must STOP ignoring the positive principles set forth by the Confederacy

Pray tell, what are these positive principles unrelated to slavery? Can you name a single one that is not also in the US Constitution?

[WhiskeyX]

“Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the Western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the Eastern.” He wrote that if those of the Mississippi valley should “see their interest in separation, why should we take side with our Atlantic rather than our Mississippi descendants? It is the elder and the younger son differing. God bless them both, & keep them in Union, if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better.” -—Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson’s comment was made knowing a state or states may secede from the United States of America by and only by exactly the same means by which they acceded to the United States of America as set forth in the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution that said the alteration to the perpetual union “be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State” and not “without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.”

The leadership of the Confederate States of America knew full well the means by which they attempted to secede their states from the perpetual union of the United States of America were unconstitutional and liable for punishment as treason, but they did so anyway in the firm conviction there was virtually no chance whatsoever they could secure the consent of Congress or the necessary ratification by the other states of the United States of America for secession of their own states. They were so certain of their inability to secure popular consent for secession, they often refused to permit a popular vote on the proposition and intimidated, arrested, and murdered delegates who refused to vote for secession. Everytime the people or their delegates rejected the proposition for secession, the rules were changed to deny the opponents the opportunity to reject the proposition for secession in the next attempt to pretend a popular referendum had been conducted for secession. Consequently, the acts of secession which potentially could have been attempted lawfully were instead conducted unlawfully and often by force of arms and intimidation of the citizens opposed to the unlawful acts.

[TexConfederate1861]

bullshit

[TexConfederate1861]

bullshit

[WhiskeyX]

How to Request to Resign a National Guard Officer Commission
By Kenneth W. Michael Wills, eHow Contributor
updated: July 8, 2010

Serving in the military as an officer is a lifetime commitment in the sense that, if an officer resigns the commission or meets contractual obligations, that officer is still subject to receive a call to duty.

http://www.ehow.com/how_6708407_request-national-guard-officer-commission.html

Oaths of Enlistment and Oaths of Office
Although the enlisted oath remained unchanged until 1950, the officer oath has undergone substantial minor modification since 1789. A change in about 1830 read: “I, _____, appointed a _____ in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States.”
http://www.history.army.mil/faq/oaths.htm

[cowboyway]

Thanks.

[cowboyway]

Thomas Jefferson’s comment was made knowing a state or states may secede from the United States of America by and only by exactly the same means by which they acceded to the United States of America as set forth in the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution that said the alteration to the perpetual union “be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State” and not “without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.”

The methods of secession are irrelevant. The fact that one or more of the Founders did not oppose secession IS relevant.

[WhiskeyX]

“The methods of secession are irrelevant. The fact that one or more of the Founders did not oppose secession IS relevant.”

Your statement has about as much logic as saying because a man does not oppose making a withdrawal of monies from a bank account, he also does not oppose withdrawal of monies from a bank account by armed robbery.

[cowboyway]

Your statement has about as much logic as saying because a man does not oppose making a withdrawal of monies from a bank account, he also does not oppose withdrawal of monies from a bank account by armed robbery.

We're talking Jefferson here. You do understand that, don't you?

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." ---Thomas Jefferson

[x]

We're talking Jefferson here. You do understand that, don't you?

Would that be the man who said this about the French Revolution?

My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to the cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated. Were there but an Adam & Eve left in every country, & left free, it would be better than as it now is.

Maybe not the best source of political advice. And certainly more of a Jacobin than our other politicians were.

[cowboyway]

Maybe not the best source of political advice.

And certainly not the worst.

And certainly more of a Jacobin than our other politicians were.

Early Federalist-leaning American newspapers during the French Revolution referred to the Democratic-Republican party as the "Jacobin Party".

[Stonewall Jackson]

I finally managed to get down to Shiloh this week. Here are some photos from one of the bloodiest battlefields of the Civil War.

The 51st Tennessee lost most of its men at Fort Donelson, but the survivors fought two months later at Shiloh. Shortly after the battle, they were incorporated into the 52nd Tennessee.

The Confederate Memorial is one of the finest memorials located at Shiloh.

The Hornet's Nest, where almost half of the battle's 23,800 casualties were suffered in an area that only covers 30 acres.

In an effort to break the Union forces at the Hornet's Nest, Brigadier General Ruggle lined up 62 cannon and opened fire for 2 hours, shattering the Union line and forcing their surrender.

Due to the heat in the days following the battle, General Grant was forced to bury the dead from both sides in mass graves. Following the war, the Union dead were moved to the National Cemetery that was established at Shiloh, but the governor of Tennessee refused to allow the disinternment of the Confederate dead, so they still remain. Only five of the seven Confederate burial trenches have ever been located.

General Albert Sidney Johnston was the highest ranking field officer in the Confederate Army at the time of his death. Nerve damage from an old wound prevented Johnston from feeling the wound to the back of his knee that nicked an artery and caused him to bleed to death from what should have been a survivable wound.