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To: Tublecane
How would the pacifists have stopped Germany from trying to conquer Europe?

Conquer Europe?! Where did you get that whooper? Imperial Germany had no such goal. It is true that it backed Austria Hungary on Serbia but that was a localized conflict. It was also a complicated one. Serbia, after all, had been constantly making trouble in Bosnia and it was clearly complicit in the assassination of the Archduke. The Austro-Hungarians felt that Serbia (backed by its pan Slavist big brother) would be making trouble on its southern borders for decades to come. I doubt most of the "nationalists" here would have tolerated similar behavior from Mexico in our territory.

Even after the dominoes started to fall, Germany's broader "conquest" goals were limited to Belgium, and perhaps additional colonies in Africa. That, combined with the independence of pro-German states in the Ukraine, the Baltics, etc., is pretty much the worst case scenario had we stayed out. Compare that to what actually happenened and it looks great!

BTW, those who cry crockodile tears about the Belgium monarchy (which had plenty of blood on its hands in the giant prison of the Congo Free State) never seem to care that the allies violated Greek neutrality during the war.

57 posted on 02/04/2011 12:33:20 PM PST by Captain Kirk (Q)
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To: Captain Kirk

“Conquer Europe?! Where did you get that whooper?”

I got that from their attempt to conquer Europe, otherwise known as WWI.

“Imperial Germany had no such goal.”

Then why’d they try? By accident?

“Even after the dominoes started to fall”

This sort of phrase is exactly the reason the general public is so confused on the issue. WWI was not a result of dominoes falling. It was the result of conscious, deliberate planning on the part of Germany.

“Germany’s broader ‘conquest’ goals were limited to Belgium, and perhaps additional colonies in Africa.”

Do you mean to say after they defeated France and Russia they would have gone back home, holding on merely to Belgium. Let’s say they would’ve. I still call launching total war with and invading the two major continental powers was ipso facto conquering the continent, no matter what they would have done afterwards.

“BTW, those who cry crockodile tears about the Belgium monarchy...never seem to care that the allies violated Greek neutrality during the war.”

It’s not so much that I cry for poor Belgium, anymore than I care about anyone being attacked for no reason. I don’t feel for the Soviet Union, but still think the Nazis were wrong to invade it. Belgium is important because Germany’s actions against it were a clear violation of international law, as well as a clear indication of their aggrandizing intentions. But most importantly, it started the war!

If the allies violated of Greece in a similar manner, no doubt it was after the war already started. You can see why doing so before there’s a war is more notable.

“which had plenty of blood on its hands in the giant prison of the Congo Free State”

Also not casus belli. Or do you argue Germany was on a humanitarian mission?


63 posted on 02/04/2011 12:53:36 PM PST by Tublecane
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