[Mr Rogers]

Vattel also says it is different in England than where he is - that the King grants the children of aliens natural born subject status. My main point is that birthers tell me native born and NBC are different, because they don’t like the implications of what it means if native born and NBC are the same.

In the end, the Supreme Court has argued that the meaning of NBC is found in the analogous term natural born subject, and not in Vattel. That is a big hurdle to clear if you want a court to rule that someone born in the USA of parents here legally is ineligible.

[Red Steel]

In the end, the Supreme Court has argued that the meaning of NBC is found in the analogous term natural born subject, and not in Vattel. That is a big hurdle to clear if you want a court to rule that someone born in the USA of parents here legally is ineligible.

No they didn't. As usual Ms. Rogers you are wrong. Horrace Gray ignored the intent and meaning behind the 14th Amendment, and in noway did he equate Wong Kim Ark to be a natural born citizen. Not even close.

[devattel]

Mr. Rogers said:

In the end, the Supreme Court has argued that the meaning of NBC is found in the analogous term natural born subject, and not in Vattel. That is a big hurdle to clear if you want a court to rule that someone born in the USA of parents here legally is ineligible.

Both early and recent court decisions have never made the connection between natural born citizen and natural born subject aside from historical reference predating the Constitution. And it's clear the definition as it pertains to Article I has never been clarified by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Nonetheless, you raise an interesting point. What exactly does the phrase "Natural-born" mean? Based on British common law, "Natural-born" is defined as being "born within the ligeance of the King, and under the King's obedience" (see American Law by James Kent c. 1836)

This raises another interesting point. How can a child born under the ligeance of two nations be subjects to two kings? In other words, how can a dual citizen be "natural-born" when his allegiance is split between the jurisdiction of two nations?

[edge919]

In the end, the Supreme Court has argued that the meaning of NBC is found in the analogous term natural born subject, and not in Vattel.

Sorry, but this is still absolutely false same as it was the last time I debunked your claim and the five times before that.

[Plummz]

Vattel also says it is different in England than where he is - that the King grants the children of aliens natural born subject status

WRONG. Incorrect. Vattel says that England chooses to naturalize such children at birth. They are naturalized citizens under the natural law of nations. Hope this helps.