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Professor Charles Rice on Obama's 'eligibility'
RenewAmerica ^ | February 27, 2011 | Matt C. Abbott

Posted on 02/28/2011 11:25:29 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike

There's been a lot of discussion in certain circles on the topic of President Obama's "eligibility." (Incidentally, Dr. William Oddie cogently argues in a recent commentary that Obama is an enemy of the Catholic Church. Click here to read it.)

Charles E. Rice, professor emeritus at Notre Dame Law School — and author of the book What Happened to Notre Dame? — argues that it's time for a new approach on the eligibility issue. His commentary is reprinted below.

(Excerpt) Read more at renewamerica.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; certifigate; charlesrice; dsj; eligibility; naturalborncitizen; notredame; notredamelawschool; obama; rice
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1 posted on 02/28/2011 11:25:29 AM PST by Hotlanta Mike
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To: Hotlanta Mike
From the link:

I suggest no conclusion as to whether Obama is eligible or not. But the citizens whom the media and political pundits dismiss as "birthers" have raised legitimate questions. That legitimacy is fueled by Obama's curious, even bizarre, refusal to consent to the release of the relevant records. Perhaps there is nothing to the issues raised. Or perhaps there is. This is potentially serious business. If it turns out that Obama knew he was ineligible when he campaigned and when he took the oath as President, it could be the biggest political fraud in the history of the world. As long as Obama refuses to disclose the records, speculation will grow and grow without any necessary relation to the truth. The first step toward resolving the issue is full discovery and disclosure of the facts.

The courts are not the only entities empowered to deal with such a question. A committee of the House of Representatives could be authorized to conduct an investigation into the eligibility issue. The classic formulation of the Congressional role is Woodrow Wilson's, in his 1884 book Congressional Government:

2 posted on 02/28/2011 11:31:50 AM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Hotlanta Mike

There isn’t a SINGLE Republican or other in the House with the Balls to even SUGGEST such an idea. We are talking about a house full of wimps, pussies and girly-men who are afraid of their own shadows let alone what Harry Smith or Chrissy Spritzer Matthews would say! I like the idea, but there are NO real men governing this country. Only pathetic losers!


3 posted on 02/28/2011 11:32:37 AM PST by Doc Savage ("I've shot people I like a lot more,...for a lot less!" Raylan Givins)
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Wow
tremendous article and opinion.

i don’t see the House, even with its GOP majority, investigationg this
but if they did it using the reasoning of Dr Rice maybe we could find out and then move on.

I know Dems say they like to keep Birthers riled up as they think it helps the Dems and 0dumbo. I am not sure that it true

thanks for posting this


4 posted on 02/28/2011 11:34:50 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Both parents U.S. citizens + Born in U.S. = Natural Born Citizen. The burden of proof is on Obama, Soetoro, or whatever his real name is, to prove he is Natural Born, not on others to prove he is not.


5 posted on 02/28/2011 11:40:13 AM PST by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: MamaDearest

I so agree.


6 posted on 02/28/2011 11:40:38 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Hotlanta Mike
He suggests that the House of Representatives investigate Obama’s eligibility.

That is a joke.

The Democrats in the House are perfectly satisfied with Obama, they could care less about the Constitution or his eligibility as long as he gives them the power of the White House.

The Republicans in the House ,even though they are now in the majority do not have the courage to investigate. They are frightened that they will be called racist or that the facts would cause riots in this country between blacks,liberals who have their nose up Obama’s hind end—— and Patriot Americans who want the right thing done.

He also says that , I quote: Obama identified himself as a foreign student at Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard Law School; when Obama traveled to Pakistan in 1981, he did so on an Indonesian passport at a time when Indonesian law forbade dual citizenship, etc., etc.

Now I have kept up pretty good with this issue and I have seen nothing to substantiate this accusation. Obama has hidden those records also and I don't know where this fellow gets his information, but if he has proof it should be published,as right now this too is part of the Obama secret.

7 posted on 02/28/2011 11:41:04 AM PST by Venturer
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To: narses

ping worthy


8 posted on 02/28/2011 11:43:38 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Hotlanta Mike

bookmark


9 posted on 02/28/2011 11:44:43 AM PST by razorback-bert (Some days it's not worth chewing through the straps.)
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To: Venturer

I can’t figure out why everyone is jumping up and down about this article. He spent 10 paragraphps regurgitating everything we alread know—and then purporting to assume that he knows about Obama’s status as a student—which we don’t know.

Then he says it should be investigated in the House of Representatives. Isn’t that what we’ve been saying for 2 and 1/2 years??? Nothing new here. For this guy’s esteemed title, I am not impressed.


10 posted on 02/28/2011 11:45:29 AM PST by mommyq
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To: All

This will all get sorted out in the next election thankfully.


11 posted on 02/28/2011 11:45:29 AM PST by RBIEL2
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To: Hotlanta Mike

A regular citizen’s committee could do it too.


12 posted on 02/28/2011 11:46:56 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: RBIEL2

I don’t believe that sorting it out in the next election is good enough. We would still have his SC nominees and Obama care, and he still has a life of luxury protected by the SS. Better to get to the bottom of his sordid lies and let him deal with the ramifications.


13 posted on 02/28/2011 11:48:55 AM PST by mommyq
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To: Hotlanta Mike

pahding


14 posted on 02/28/2011 11:50:50 AM PST by skeptoid (The road to serfdom is being paved by RINOs, and Lisa Murkowski is their mascot.)
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To: Venturer
He suggests that the House of Representatives investigate Obama’s eligibility.

That is a joke.

The little pansies are scarrrrred of ridicule from the liberal media of effeminates like Chrisssy Mathews.

15 posted on 02/28/2011 12:00:02 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: mommyq

burp...


16 posted on 02/28/2011 12:04:08 PM PST by RBIEL2
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To: shooter223

“The burden of proof is on Obama, Soetoro, or whatever his real name is, to prove he is Natural Born, not on others to prove he is not.”

You may wish this were the case, but it is not. The Constitution specifies no process for certifying presidential qualifications.


17 posted on 02/28/2011 12:06:07 PM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: shooter223
"The burden of proof is on Obama, Soetoro, or whatever his real name is, to prove he is Natural Born, not on others to prove he is not."

Then it's all a moot point - as so far, no one has taken the challenge to a point where he has to prove anything. Status quo is obama friend and protector at this time.

All of the birther discussion is for naught if it is not pushed hard enough to make obama prove it.

He's laughing his ass off at us.
18 posted on 02/28/2011 12:13:48 PM PST by FrankR (The Evil Are Powerless If The Good Are Unafraid! - R. Reagan)
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To: mommyq

“everything we already know” here is repeated in an echo chamber. This is a new media venue, and from someone folks may take seriously.

How many people have put their own name and/or reputation and/or money on the line to get an answer to this question? Damned few.


19 posted on 02/28/2011 12:25:47 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: MamaDearest
That legitimacy is fueled by Obama's curious, even bizarre, refusal to consent to the release of the relevant records.

EXACTLY!!!!!

BTW, to give credit where credit is due, the first "birther" was a fairly prominent Pennsylvania Democrat

20 posted on 02/28/2011 12:26:30 PM PST by Tribune7 (The Democrat Party is not a political organization but a religious cult.)
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To: Hotlanta Mike

No new point or idea. It was just said by another.


21 posted on 02/28/2011 12:28:54 PM PST by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: RWGinger; All

Dual citizenship could force Thai leader from office

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/02/dual_citizenship_could_force_t.html


22 posted on 02/28/2011 12:30:04 PM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: Doc Savage

If you’re not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.


23 posted on 02/28/2011 12:31:04 PM PST by SeeSac
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Excellent. This thread is a keeper!


24 posted on 02/28/2011 12:33:36 PM PST by jersey117
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To: Hotlanta Mike

bttt


25 posted on 02/28/2011 12:34:33 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Bookmark)
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To: Venturer
He also says that , I quote: Obama identified himself as a foreign student at Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard Law School; when Obama traveled to Pakistan in 1981, he did so on an Indonesian passport at a time when Indonesian law forbade dual citizenship, etc., etc.

Now I have kept up pretty good with this issue and I have seen nothing to substantiate this accusation. Obama has hidden those records also and I don't know where this fellow gets his information, but if he has proof it should be published,as right now this too is part of the Obama secret.




I believe the author of the article was merely listing some of the questions on the minds of the "birthers," without citing any of them as established fact. Actually, the author explicitly states that he does not pass upon the veracity of any of the claims, but says that ascertaining the answers to these question falls well within the purview of the House's responsibilities.
26 posted on 02/28/2011 12:41:02 PM PST by Milton Miteybad (I am Jim Thompson. {Really.})
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To: swain_forkbeard

The fact that no detailed process has been specified is irrelevant to the question of burden. There is a long history of “burden of proof” in litigation, and in general that burden lies with the proponent of a fact essential to the cause of action, here, the purported fact that Obama is eligible under the Constitution to be President. Once the initial burden has been met, the denier of that fact must then produce evidence the fact is false.

The problem is, while the constitutional rule still implies a burden of proof on the candidate and his party, the current system relies too heavily on internal party vetting of candidate qualification. There’s a pathological conflict of interest in that. The adverse political party is a far better source of contrary evidence, but it often comes too late in the process, or not at all if bringing it up could backfire on other under-qualified candidates (as with the McCain eligibility flap). Once, Lord willing, we are done with Obama, this deficiency in the system needs to be revisited.

However, this is not strictly a litigation question, and runs more to the political sense of “burden of proof,” and all the legal fineries of burden of proof logic go pretty much out the window in favor of the common sense rule, which is still this, that if you say something is so, it’s up to you to prove it, and if you don’t prove it, the electorate has a right to doubt you, and to act politically on that doubt.

So really, the burden of proof is still on him no matter how you slice it. And he has failed to meet that burden, and we need to continuously remind the public that their intuition of doubt, brought on by his evasiveness and unwillingness to acknowledge his burden of proof, is fully justified, and not only so, but potentially explanatory of his aversion to policy that advances genuinely American interests. And if this self-inflicted doubt accelerates the dampening of his political power and his potential for reelection, then we can only count it a good thing to sustain that doubt by continually highlighting his obligation, his burden, to remove it, if he can.


27 posted on 02/28/2011 12:48:55 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: RWGinger

“maybe we could find out and then move on.”

Move on to what?


28 posted on 02/28/2011 12:51:50 PM PST by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: FrankR
He's laughing his ass off at us.

....and compliant media and liberal judges who do his bidding for him (the whole kit and kaboodle of corrupt political groupies, appointees and allies who despise the US Constititution and Bill of Rights).

29 posted on 02/28/2011 12:53:28 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Hotlanta Mike

this is interesting
“He would have to specifically renounce it to lose British citizenship”

In 0dumbo’s case it was said that 0dumbo lost his brit citizenship unless He specifically applied for it at age 21

Now I wonder if that was true.

Move on to either accepting he can prove he was born in HI and no one has the guts to go after the natuaral born issue Or prove he is not eligible and get him the F out


30 posted on 02/28/2011 12:56:14 PM PST by RWGinger
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To: jersey117

You should send the article to every local, state and national rep that you have and to you local pastor/priest/preacher/rabbi etc.

This is written by a ranking official from Notre Dame University...is Ted Baxter or Crissy Matthews going to call him a nutty birther too?


31 posted on 02/28/2011 12:57:53 PM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: RWGinger

Correction
apparently 0dumbo while born a UK citizen through hsi father became a kenyan when Kenay became independent in 63.
apparently Kenyans who are dual citizens must apply for sole Kenyan citizenship at age 23. Likely 0dumbo did not

but NOTHING changes that 0dumbo was and is NOT a antrual born citizen


32 posted on 02/28/2011 1:00:41 PM PST by RWGinger
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To: RWGinger

natural


33 posted on 02/28/2011 1:01:12 PM PST by RWGinger
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To: Milton Miteybad; ExTexasRedhead
....but says that ascertaining the answers to these question falls well within the purview of the House's responsibilities.

While several poliicians are AWOL in Wisconsin with no apparently accountability, he expects House members to do serious work on behalf of American citizens? They are little more than self-serving tools of lobbyists and activist groups. Blatant disregard by the administration regarding the ruling on Obamacare alone is proof positive that disregarding our nation's laws (healthcare, immigration, marriage) demonstrate a clear contempt thereof.

34 posted on 02/28/2011 1:02:53 PM PST by MamaDearest
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To: Hotlanta Mike
Birth Certificate; Obama's shame
35 posted on 02/28/2011 1:04:28 PM PST by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: FrankR

36 posted on 02/28/2011 1:06:20 PM PST by Hotlanta Mike (TeaNami)
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To: shooter223; Hotlanta Mike; All
Thanks for the link, Mike.

Shooter points out:
The Constitution specifies no process for certifying presidential qualifications.

That may be correct.
However, 3 USC 15 most certainly does. The blatant disregard of that statute by the Congress during the 2009 Joint Session, most particularly in the face of the public's outcry over O's eligibility, was a failure of each member to defend the Constitution. That charge especially applies to the Republican members.

The burden of proof has always been on Obama, but someone has to request he submit that proof. The Joint Session was the time and place.

37 posted on 02/28/2011 1:07:34 PM PST by frog in a pot (We need a working definition of "domestic enemies" if the oath of office is to have meaning.)
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To: Doc Savage
...there are NO real men governing this country...

I believe this completely explains the current State of the Union.

38 posted on 02/28/2011 1:09:39 PM PST by GingisK
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To: Hotlanta Mike

BUMP.

Charles Rice is one of the most brilliant and principled men in America.


39 posted on 02/28/2011 1:12:14 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Eventually, the Admin Mod will zot Islam. It's not a quesiton of if, but when.)
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To: MamaDearest
A committee of the House of Representatives could be authorized to conduct an investigation into the eligibility issue.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am DISGUSTED with weenie Republicans. Is there a true man or woman among them? What happened to grit?

Boehner’s phones, voice mail, and e-mail should be clogged and shut down with complaints from those defending Article 2 Section 1. The halls leading to his offices should be filled with petitioners demanding that Obama’s eligibility be investigated. Letters by the ton should be arriving at this office.

Boehner should hear deafening demands that Obama’s eligibility be investigated every time he greets a crowd.

40 posted on 02/28/2011 1:13:20 PM PST by wintertime
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To: Hotlanta Mike
Wow! Just Wow!

ML/NJ

41 posted on 02/28/2011 1:13:20 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Bump


42 posted on 02/28/2011 1:18:32 PM PST by BulletBobCo
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To: Venturer
He also says that , I quote: Obama identified himself as a foreign student at Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard Law School; when Obama traveled to Pakistan in 1981, he did so on an Indonesian passport at a time when Indonesian law forbade dual citizenship, etc., etc.

I wonder: is English your mother tongue? Were you taught to read?

The words you quote were in a paragraph that starts with the words, "The lawsuits have presented a bewildering array of claims ..."

Are you a paid obfuscator, or merely stupid?

ML/NJ

43 posted on 02/28/2011 1:20:02 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Excellent article! Balanced, even keeled, clear presentation of the Constitutional questions (and NO Conspiracy theories!)... Awesome. He is dead on right. This ought to be on the fax machines, in the email boxes and in the snail mail boxes of every US Representative (especially Republicans) in DC ASAP.


44 posted on 02/28/2011 1:22:19 PM PST by patriot preacher
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To: Hotlanta Mike

It just might be zer0 who has a good laugh for pulling this off. It is beyond me as to why this is even still a question.


45 posted on 02/28/2011 1:24:38 PM PST by reefdiver ("Let His day's be few And another takes His office")
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To: shooter223; swain_forkbeard; All

Shooter, my apology. I am in a rush to get out the door.
It was, of course, swain_forkbeard who made the statement re the Constitution.


46 posted on 02/28/2011 1:25:42 PM PST by frog in a pot (We need a working definition of "domestic enemies" if the oath of office is to have meaning.)
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To: Hotlanta Mike

Clearly, he is the anti-Taitz.


47 posted on 02/28/2011 1:41:45 PM PST by Tex-Con-Man
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To: frog in a pot

I just reviewed 3 USC 15. Interesting stuff. But I don’t see that it speaks to Presidential qualifications. I do see that it allows for members of the Senate or the House to object to the recording of electoral votes from any given State. But nobody did that when they had the chance.

Even if someone does that, it just goes to the Senate or House to be sorted out. And how would they do that? What standard or process would they use to determine if a candidate was qualified? What definition of natural born would they use? The issue might get to the House or Senate, but we’d be right back where we started. With no clearly defined process, standard, or definition.

So what did I miss?


48 posted on 02/28/2011 1:49:54 PM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: Hotlanta Mike

an exemplary statement/article


49 posted on 02/28/2011 2:30:49 PM PST by 1234 ("1984")
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To: Hotlanta Mike
The states are responsible for casting ballots for president and vice president. It is a scandal that certain people are apparently able to run for president, and be placed on the ballots of the several states, with no more credentials than an illegal alien.

You couldn't get a driver's license as easily as Obama got on the ballot in all 50 states.
Even if he was qualified at birth to be considered a citizen, and a "natural born" citizen is not considered to be anything different than that, Obama apparently was treated as a national by other countries - so is Obama any kind of citizen of America at all? We don't know, and that is a scandal if there ever was one in American politics.


50 posted on 02/28/2011 2:30:59 PM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (DRAFT PALIN)
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