Posted on 03/07/2011 6:27:45 AM PST by Lazamataz
My guess is trial balloon. They won't give up because collective bargaining is the linchpin of their power. What's hurting them is they can't find a defense for this. They keep testing strategies and kept getting slapped down.
The Wisconsin Democrat mindset:
Indeed, I think that the reality will be that the public will understand the terrible consequences of having failed to meet or exceed a supermajority of fiscal conservatives last time around, and remedy that error next election by taking out at least one more Dem senator.
I wish this were true, however the polls I have seen have not been good at all for Walker and the Republicans. I've seen exactly zero polls that show Wisconsonites are particularly disgusted with unions or the childish behavior of the fleebagging Senate Dems. Can you cite me polls showing people are disgusted with the unions? Or is this just something you hope is happening?
Saying that, I do believe that once the Dems return home and the legislation passes that Walker and the Republicans popularity will increase. People like a winner, and if Walker/Republicans stand strong, they will be rewarded once this immediate battle is over. It is always tough to pass big change, and during the fight the politician trying to make the change usually suffer in the polls. If they see it through and win, they generally rebound nicely. Classic examples are Chris Christie taking on teachers unions, Margaret Thatcher taking on the trade unions in Britain, Reagan firing PATCO workers, etc. Walker and the Republicans in Wisconsin just need to hold strong and not cave in to the enormous pressure they are under.
So long as the elimination of dues witholding remains in this bill, I suspect some guys named Guido and Louie the Schnozz will be breaking kneecaps of any Democrat Senators who attempt to return
The only part of the bill that seem negotiable is the annual recertification. If I were the pubblies I would threaten to limit state workers to the same rights enjoyed by federal employees.
Think you are right on. Teachers will see that the world doesn’t end with the union weakened.
Myopic echo chamber.
Just found another spew from another fleebagger on his Facebook page:
Chris Larson
“Sen. Miller’s comments are taken out of context in the Wall Street Journal article just released. Dems will return when collective bargaining is off the table. That could be soon based on the growing public opposition to the bill and the recall efforts against Republicans. Unfortunately, the WSJ fished for the quote they wanted, skipping this key step in logic: we won’t come back until worker’s rights are preserved.”
So it’s the mean WSJs fault not the idiot Mark Miller...hope they take a long time to realize what fools they are making of themselves.
Watch out for the ones wearing loose bulky clothing, sweat a lot with a thousand yard stare.
Good. I hope they drag it out long enough to lose their seats.
I haven't seen the evidence, but its counter-intuitive to believe the non-union voters of Wisconsin are turning in their favor. Their behavior is chickensh*t by ANYONE'S definition, and everyone other than hardcore democrat contituents understand that spending money you don't have is baaad.
Just a bit more on the polls
http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes/117485788.html?blog=y
The message needs to be sharpened by Walker, but I agree in the long run that his positions will be heralded.
That would be good. They need to prevent them from deserting their posts again.
Posted in it’s entirity:
Story Updated: Mar 6, 2011
Predictably the liberal media will make much of the new WPRI poll showing Governor Walker with a 43 percent approval rating.
But there are some very interesting findings in the poll (which seems to over sample both Democrats and union households.
The poll says voters oppose Walker’s budget plan by a 46% to 51% margin. But: An overwhelmingly majority — 81% said that public employees should be required to contribute to their own pensions.
When voters were asked to choose between keeping public employees wages and benefits the same but cutting the number of workers or making employees pay more for their pension and benefits to avoid layoffs.... voters by a margin of 83 percent to 12 percent chose having the employees pay more for their benefits.
Right now this is the heart of the Walker budget pitch.
And on the issue of collective bargain; another mixed message:
When asked whether they favored “limiting” public employees ability to negotiate over non-wage issues: the poll splits 47% in favor, 50% opposed. (That is within the margin of error.)
When that question is changed to whether employees should be “stripped of their rights to collective bargaining,” along with other loaded language, support drops to 32%.
So wording obviously matters. A lot
Here are the exact questions:
Q22a. Limiting most public employees’ ability to negotiate over non-wage issues in order to prevent local union affiliates from obstructing the budgeting process for local governments [SPLIT A N=303)
Strongly favor ........................................................ 31
Somewhat favor ................................................... 16
Somewhat oppose .............................................. 15
Strongly oppose .................................................... 35
Don’t Know/Refuse................................................. 3
Q22b. Stripping most public employees of their right to collectively bargain over benefits and working conditions as part of a ploy to eliminate public employee unions altogether [SPLIT B N=300)
Strongly favor ........................................................ 22
Somewhat favor ..................................................... 10
Somewhat oppose ................................................. 8
Strongly oppose ..................................................... 50
Don’t Know/Refuse.................................................. 9
The poll does not ask whether union membership should be mandatory... or whether public employees should have the right to choose whether to join a union or not (the answers would be interesting.) But it does ask this question:
Q25. Eliminating the requirement that the employer must deduct union dues from members of a
bargaining unit regardless of whether or not the individuals request such deductions.
Strongly favor ........................................................ 26
Somewhat favor .................................................... 20
Somewhat oppose ............................................... 23
Strongly oppose .................................................... 23
Don’t Know/Refuse.................................................. 8
Again, a key element of the Walker budget — ending mandatory dues withholding — polls 46-46. Different wording obviously would yield different results.
Finally, on the Runaway 14. the poll finds that by a margin of 47 to 51% voters disapproved of the decision of Democrats to leave the state to avoid voting on the budget. But the wording of the question is about as favorable for the 14 as you can get.
What if the question has been: ‘Should the 14 Democrats senators who are hiding in Illinois come back and do their jobs, or stay out of state until they get their way,?” I suspect the numbers would have been starkly different.
**
Some of other issues where Walker and the GOP have some real upside potential: When voters were asked an open-ended question about priorities, only 12 percent mentioned “protecting collective bargaining rights.” Sixty-three percent mentioned; balancing the budget, improving the economy or holding the line on spending and taxes.
Another interesting finding: by a 10 pt. margin, (52-42) even this sample chose “lower taxes and fewer services,” over “higher taxes and more services.”
**
Bottom line: three weeks into the fight, Walker (a) needs to sharpen his messaging, and (b) while the unions have clearly scored some points, this fight is eminently winnable.
“that could be soon due to the growing public opposition to the bill”.
So lemme get this straight, Chris. The GOP majority in both houses and the resolve of Gov. Walker to not cave and give in to your demands...means nothing.
What’s important is that a bunch of union thugs and college dropouts are making alot of noise.
UUUUU. Scott and the majority party look terrified, don’t they? DON’T THEY?
Read the whole thing for some serious analysis and education.
Its easy to get the poll results desired when the pollsters are willing to LIE by implication. The employees will still be able to CB for salaries, just not benefits.
If they allow CB as before the b*stards will simply reverse any savings accomplished by this legislation in a year.
Your failed to have that unicorn crapping skittles everywhere for the downtrodden.
I think the poll result show that those responding have not made the connection between “lower costs” and the BRB as proposed. Gov. Walker has said (but many haven’t heard) that the key reason the collective bargaining reform is needed is because it’s the only way to get the 5 and 12% reductions - he has no legal ability otherwise to go into hundreds of school districts, villages, cities, etc and modify all their existing signed contracts. As people start to pay attention to the real isuses rather than the protests and fleebaggers, they will “get” this and support the bill.
You make excellent points about the wording of the poll questions.
Polls can’t explain the issues adequately, and when you ask someone “Should the Governor compromise?” - that word can mean very different things to each person who is polled. And as others have pointed out, when the media describes a polling outfit as “conservative-leaning” it often isn’t, and is doesn’t mean anything with regard to the validity or caliber of the poll itself.
Your poll fisking was very helpful and encouraging. Miller sent Walker a letter today practically begging to meet face-to-face and negotiate the bill. That doesn’t sound like someone who believes he has the upper hand, not even with his fellow fleebaggers fighting to be the latest to shoot down Miller’s trial balloons.
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