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To: Defend Liberty
You also fail to understand embedded corporate incomes taxes, along with compliance costs passed onto the consumer, already amounts to nearly 23% of the price.

You fail to understand the existence of imports, and while you pat yourself on the back because you recognize some compliance costs, US industry is still hampered by massive regulatory compliance costs outside of the IRS. I also call BS on the 23% gross income corporate tax rate. If you have to tell a very large lie to sell your argument, you are likely selling something that no one wants.

The Fair Tax will remove those embedded taxes from the price and show that 23% separately on the receipt.

And that is where the "Fair Taxers" leave reality world and enter in to the same place static analysis Demoncats go when they think that they can raise taxes without consequences. Reasonable people see the 23% tax on everything and consider, theft, barter, fraud and the already burgeoning underground economy (you know, the one that can already buy and sell billions of $ in drugs, guns, services and other contraband without any tax oversight).

The Fair Tax is a foreigner's dream tax, and a citizen's nightmare tax. Only someone who is ignorant of this or hates America would advocate it. Let me briefly explain.

Shekar gets his H1-B visa and spends a couple decades in the US earning money tax free working in the tech sector. Spending as little as possible, he socks away his income with the intention of retiring to his native India. No taxes paid in the US, low sales tax in India. Win/Win.

José sneaks across the southern border and no longer needs to steal ID because who cares? He earns money no longer taxed with the eye towards retiring home in Mexico where the sales tax is low. Win/Win.

Sally has already worked most of her life in the US and has nearly 40% of her income taxed from her in the form of income taxes, and another "23%" in "embedded taxes" whenever she purchases something. Not some Jackass want to tax whatever wealth she has accumulated and already paid taxes on for her retirement at an initial 25%. Lose/Lose

Bill has worked 80hr weeks all his life, saved like a miser and now is worth tens of millions. All along he has had to drag along the burden of the current tax system. Now some jackal wants to steal his already taxed investment nestegg an additional 25% (initially). Bill won't take this lying down, he picks up and moves to Costa Rica, New Zealand, or any other swelling ex-pat community anywhere else on the planet other than the united States and takes his investment money with him. Lose/Wash

Basically, the Fair Taxers want to scare away all this nation's wealth, or at least the large sums controlled by people who know how to make and retain money and are mobile. Suckers who are left will see their already heavily taxed retirement vanish with yet another confiscatory tax brought on by lunatic Libertarians.

Corporations leave the united States for a myriad of reasons outside just the tax burden, since you correctly observed that they can pass on the additional tax. The US consumer market would shrink because everything now costs significantly more, so corporations would still be outside the US since that is where the growing market is. There would be an uptick in sales by those who have expatriated to tax havens rather than be raped here in the US. The vacation/travel industry would flat out die as a convention in Vancouver or San Saba is far more appealing with the new 25% penalty attached. The millions of government retirees would take all of that tax money collected and spend it outside the US. Why retire in American anymore, particularly with Obamacare promising the same if not worse health care then elsewhere. Speaking of healthcare, big ticket hospital visits are much cheaper in India, Mexico and Singapore - yet another reason, under the "Fair Tax" to enjoy one's wealth anywhere but the united States.

So tell me, how do you expect the US to survive if its only source of taxing flees the country? 80% tax on those who remain? 100%? Any limit?

78 posted on 03/18/2011 5:24:22 AM PDT by The Theophilus (Pray for Obama (Psalms 109:8))
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To: The Theophilus
You fail to understand the existence of imports, and while you pat yourself on the back because you recognize some compliance costs, US industry is still hampered by massive regulatory compliance costs outside of the IRS. I also call BS on the 23% gross income corporate tax rate. If you have to tell a very large lie to sell your argument, you are likely selling something that no one wants.

You need to read more thoroughly. I addressed the issue of imports in my previous post: Prices will increase by the range you cite for foreign goods since they currently don't have a consumption tax imposed on imported goods to the U.S. but will have it imposed under The Fair Tax.. You also misinterpreted the issue regarding embedded costs. The nearly 23% figure I stated included compliance costs and corporate taxes passed onto the consumer, not just a 23% corporate tax rate you erroneously cite.

And that is where the "Fair Taxers" leave reality world and enter in to the same place static analysis Demoncats go when they think that they can raise taxes without consequences. Reasonable people see the 23% tax on everything and consider, theft, barter, fraud and the already burgeoning underground economy (you know, the one that can already buy and sell billions of $ in drugs, guns, services and other contraband without any tax oversight).

The reality is people who don't pay under the income tax code will pay the tax under The Fair Tax. They include illegal aliens, foreigners either living in the country temporarily or are visiting. The under ground economy will shrink considerably with the Fair Tax as people will have greater purchasing power due to no federal taxes being deducted from paycheck, dividend checks, capital gains and estates.

The Fair Tax is a foreigner's dream tax, and a citizen's nightmare tax. Only someone who is ignorant of this or hates America would advocate it. Let me briefly explain.

You neglect to consider people like Sally will no longer have taxes imposed on their income, capital gains, interest in savings, estates along with the embedded corporate taxes and compliance costs passed onto the consumer at each stage of production. Consequently people are taxed multiple times. All those taxes go away with the Fair Tax. The amount of savings over time with those taxes eliminated will more than offset Sally paying taxes on consumption. Moreover opposing conversion to The Fair Tax is to ignore the increasing income tax burden and control the federal government will have over Sally's progeny. The Fair Tax will ensure her offspring will be able to accumulate more wealth than she.

Corporations leave the united States for a myriad of reasons outside just the tax burden, since you correctly observed that they can pass on the additional tax. The US consumer market would shrink because everything now costs significantly more, so corporations would still be outside the US since that is where the growing market is.

The U.S. market has been shrinking for decades. The single biggest reason corporations leave the U.S. is due to U.S. having the highest corporate income tax rate in the world. No longer taxing productivity will reduce the rate to zero will encourage U.S. firms to return more of their plant assets to the U.S. thereby bringing jobs back to the country.
82 posted on 03/19/2011 6:28:56 AM PDT by Defend Liberty
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