Fake certified coins could cost Burnsville coin firm

Star Tribune ^ | April 7, 2011 - 12:16 PM | DAN BROWNING

[DeaconBenjamin]

Robert Webber says he spotted the 1845 U.S. silver dollar as a Chinese counterfeit the minute he saw it.

Webber, of Goldsboro, N.C., returned the bogus coin to Burnsville Coin Co. last year for a refund of $449. He included a note warning that the other two coins he had ordered, at a cost of $12,400, must be certified as authentic by the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) -- or else.

It appears that Burnsville Coin owner Barry Skog is about to find out what that means.

Webber said the other coins he received -- 1851 and 1858 silver dollars -- not only were fakes, but also were encased in counterfeit PCGS holders. He showed them to PCGS representatives at a Boston coin show last year, and its parent company, Collectors Universe, filed suit against Skog and his company in a California federal court alleging trademark infringement.

Skog never formally responded to the charges; a handwritten denial he sent to the judge last month was rejected as improper. The clerk of the court declared Skog in default. Collectors Universe now seeks a judgment against him.

In filings this week, the company asked the court to bar Burnsville Coin from selling coins in counterfeit PCGS holders; to order Skog to turn over all counterfeit coins and holders for destruction; and to turn over all profits his company made by selling any coins in counterfeit PCGS holders. The company also seeks $11,772 in legal costs.

Thursday, Skog wrote that a hearing is pending in California "in which we plan to plead 'Not Guilty' and we have requested a change in venue. We have been in business for over 35 years and sold nearly 5,000 coins last year alone! There is a question on two of them. That should say something!"

[driftdiver]

Man is there nothing those Chinese won’t counterfeit?

[VRWCmember]

We have been in business for over 35 years and sold nearly 5,000 coins last year alone! There is a question on two of them. That should say something!"

From the facts presented in the article, there is a question on at least three of them -- all three sold to the same customer. Given that three out of three coins sold to one customer were found to be fakes, in the words of the dealer, "THAT SHOULD SAY SOMETHING."

With three separate shipments of fradulent merchandise, RICO statutes probably kick in, which will make thie HUGH and SERIES!

[agere_contra]

Also: don’t buy gold coins from the St Petersburg Mint (Russia).

If you do, make sure you take out a rust insurance policy.

[Ronin]

Nope.

They don't even look at it as wrong.

[Defend Liberty]

Below is a Burnsville CO. coin no one suspected was counterfeit.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Man is there nothing those Chinese won’t counterfeit?

In another couple years, the US $1 Trillion dollar bill.

[count-your-change]

The value of sending a coin to be graded is dubious at best. And now it becomes obvious that if $100 bills of near perfect quality can be made so can a simple plastic holder with a label.

That’s why I’d never pay a dime extra for a “graded” coin.

[kearnyirish2]

You should see the junk coins for sale in San Fran’s Chinatown (fake 19th century US, and even older Chinese stuff); if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

[razorback-bert]

You would think the Secret Service would be after him too.

[Travis McGee]

This is why I don't mess with numismatics. It's for folks with a VERY high level of expertise only.

I just want bullion. Tell me the spot price and let's make a deal.

[ExSoldier]

I had to learn the hard way. I had real pre 1932 uncirculated coins but I was sold a bill of goods on their value as an investment. My loss was over $2500 when I was able to sell them. I did get something back, but it was ugly. I got into silver bullion when it was at $15. Wish I'd gotten 10X my initial investment, now.

[palmer]

I picked up a counterfeit seated liberty $ on EBay on purpose. It cost $2 which included shipping. I sent the money via paypal to some Chinese email address. The coin was quite well made, but obviously the die was made from a worn coin and the coin itself was some sort of pot metal. I turned it around at the flea market that day and made $1 profit.

[palmer]

I started with junk quarters and now I have a mostly MS set. The nice thing about starting with gold bullion and junk silver is that it has kept up with the coins that I want so I can trade at spot and the dealer turns around and sells my trade-ins the same day.

[dennisw]

This is why I don't mess with numismatics. It's for folks with a VERY high level of expertise only. I just want bullion. Tell me the spot price and let's make a deal.

I hear numismatics are sealed in plastic and honestly graded these days. But 20 years ago I bought few and when I had them appraised I was told I was ripped off. That what I was told was MS-64 was really MS-60. So I held on to them and they are doing great today anyway

But I agree-- get bullion coins. Silver and gold. I would not bother with platinum and palladium

[hinckley buzzard]

I would, if I knew it had been slabbed say ten years ago or more. It is possible to determine this, and worthwhile. Counterfeit collector coins have always been around, and the certification services have done a major service by autheticating potentially valuable coins. This new development gives pause, though, certainly for recently certified coins. Where there are two there are likely to be many more.

[palmer]

I hear numismatics are sealed in plastic and honestly graded these days.

That would be good except for the forged plastic cases. Now a collector has to be an expert in coins and cases. But the real answer is, as always, find a reputable dealer. Any dealer who won't take back a coin should be avoided

That what I was told was MS-64 was really MS-60.

It is pretty easy to tell the MS grades apart comparatively. Where people get tripped up is buying AU58 sold as MS62.

[dennisw]

I like your flea market story w the Chinese counterfeit

[razorback-bert]

I bought 100 Canadian silver dollars for $5, because they were cheaper that US silver dollars and sure wish I had bought 10X too.

[count-your-change]

Twenty-five years ago when I first got involved in a minor way with coins I was told that grading is opinion and nothing more. As long as someone is willing to pay for it, someone will fake it so learn to do your own grading.

Even back then people busted open the plastic and found the coins over graded by the seller and under graded by the buyer.

But business is business and let the buyer beware...always.