That is the Dublin edition, not the New York edition. Please stop posting lies to FreeRepublic.com .
I’m not lying. I found a picture that says it is from the 1787 edition. But of course, I’m SURE you have a picture, validated, of a supposedly different 1787 New York edition...
Oh wait. Further research with Google shows there is no online picture anywhere of this supposed version of Vattel. Just claims that someone has seen it - rather like Bigfoot.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2670001/posts?page=1
Maybe you’ll believe this, since you don’t believe me:
“3. The first American edition of Vattel’s book was published in 1787 in New York. The text for Section 212 in this edition was identical to that of the first English-language edition from 1759; specifically, is used the phrase “natives, or indigenes.””
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/09/natural-born-citizen-clause-requires.html
Here is the entire comment made by John Greschak as posted on puzo1.blogspot:
“I would like to clarify some points regarding Vattel’s book “Le Droit des Gens”, which, in its translated form, was titled “The Law of Nations.”
In various places, I have seen statements that suggest that Vattel wrote the phrase “natural-born citizens” in Section 212 of a book titled “The Law of Nations” in 1758. And, since the Framers knew of Vattel’s work, it has been suggested that they were influenced by his use of this phrase.
From what I can see, that is incorrect. Here are the facts (as I understand them):
1. In 1758, Vattel wrote a book titled “Le Droit des Gens” in French. There he used the phrase “Naturels, or Indigenes” (with an accent grave on the first “e” of “Indigenes”).
2. Subsequently, in 1759, Vattel’s book was translated into English and published in London (and called “The Law of Nations”). I do not know who did this translation. Vattel’s phrase “Naturels, or Indigenes” was translated into “natives, or indigenes” (with no accent grave in “Indigenes”).
3. The first American edition of Vattel’s book was published in 1787 in New York. The text for Section 212 in this edition was identical to that of the first English-language edition from 1759; specifically, is used the phrase “natives, or indigenes.”
4. I have seen Dublin, London and New York English-language editions that were published in 1792, 1793 and 1796, respectively. There again, the phrase “natives, or indigenes” was used.
5. In 1797, an English-language edition of Vattel’s book was printed in London. There the phrase “natives, or natural-born citizens” was used instead of “natives, or indigenes.” In this edition, other changes were made to the English-language version of Section 212 as well. I do not know who was responsible for these changes. I believe this is the first time the phrase “natural-born citizen” was used in any edition of “The Law of Nations.”
Consequently, I do not believe Vattel wrote “natural-born citizens.” Also, since the Constitution was written in 1787 and had been ratified by all 13 original states by the end of 1790, I do not believe that the Framers were influenced by this use of the phrase “natural-born citizens” in “The Law of Nations” (which was not published until 1797).
By this, I do not mean to imply that this particular passage from the 1797 English edition of “Le Droit des Gens” is insignificant. I believe it tells us something about the meaning of the phrase “natural born Citizen”. I take the phrase “natives, or natural-born citizens” as an indication that “natives” and “natural-born citizens” are synonymous terms. The question then becomes: Of the many possible meanings for the word “native”, with which sense is the phrase “natural born Citizen” synonymous?
I have published an image of the version of Section 212 from “Le Droit des Gens” and images of various versions of this section from translations of that work. You can find these in the introductory paragraphs of my essay “What is a Natural Born Citizen of the United States?” at http://www.greschak.com/essays/natborn/index.htm.”; John Greschak.
The point to understand is that “natural born Citizen” is associated with Vattel, even if he did not use those exact words himself but rather used “naturels, ou indigenes” (”natives or indigenes)” Vattel defined those French words to mean someone who was born in the country to citizen parents. Someone during the 1797 English translation substituted the phrase “natural born Citizen” for the words “natives” and “indigenes.” But the three words all meant the same thing, i.e., someone born in the county to citizen parents. Hence, the conclusion is that Vattel provided the definition of what a “natural born Citizen” is, for that phrase replaced the words “natives or indigenes” which he defined exactly the same way as “natural born Citizen” came to be defined.
Note he believes birthers are correct, but rejects the idea that there is a difference between the two 1787 editions. For my part, I apologize for not catching that there were two editions published in 1787...I don’t spend much time studying Vattel, since I think he is legally irrelevant to the discussion.
Still, if anyone claims the NY edition in 1787 uses “natural born citizen”, I think the burden of proof is on them to show John Greschak lied.
Also, “Dr. Conspiracy” publishes what is supposed to be a picture of the 1787 American edition, which he credits to John Greschak. Mario Apuzzo responds later in the discussion on that page, and does not challenge the accuracy of the picture. Both Mario Apuzzo and John Greschak seem content to argue that ‘indigenes’ is French for NBC, and that is, after all, the word the 1797 translation translates NBC.
Also note this comment by “Dr. Conspiracy”:
“I also thought it highly unfair to use the images that Greshak uncovered and not share the fact that he uses those images as part of an argument that does not agree with my conclusions. Greshak is not part of the hoax (those who simply say that de Vattel wrote “natural born citizen” (in English translation) and the Framers read it, or that the term is “defined” in The Law of Nations).”
The two websites both have discussions worth reading, with most of the discussion being honest and polite:
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/09/natural-born-citizen-clause-requires.html
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/05/de-vattel-revisited/
Those afraid to read ‘Dr. Conspiracy’ should notice that Mario Apuzzo posted there multiple times.