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To: Beelzebubba
I didn’t say I agreed on everything, but being groped by the TSA represents a freedom lost, if you’re looking for examples.

I don't recall anyone stating that you agreed with Michael Moore on 'everything'. That would make you an America-hating loon. I don't see that in your previous posts.

The TSA groping is definitely annoying but we've experienced attempted airline bombings (Richard Reid -'the shoe bomber' in 2001 and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab,'the underwear bomber' in 2009. Had these men been successful, hundreds would have died. Precautions must be taken. Any 'freedom lost' is due to the threats from Muslim suicide bombers, not the government that is acting to protect it's citizens. Although we can quibble about the best methods to ensure that protection (and we all dislike the TSA) but the rationale for that agency is valid, based on our experience with would-be suicide bombers.

I’d add wealth lost because of over taxation to fund excessive police efforts.

Over-taxation is definitely a problem for Americans but not solely due to the cost of wars in Iraq and/or Afghanistan but due to the reckless spending of the politicians in Washington on things other than the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan. Yes, that includes Republicans. However, according to estimates, the cost of 9/11 was at least 100 billion. The defense of it's citizens is a governments primary obligation. Michael Moore would disagree but President Bush acted appropriately when he sent the U.S. military into Iraq and Afghanistan. That the leftist Obama is still keeping (and increasing) U.S. troops in Afghanistan validates their initial deployment following 9/11. Iraq is a fragile but democratic nation and the removal (and subsequent execution by Iraqis) of Saddam Hussein was both necessary and beneficial to Iraq's citizens and the security of the United States.

The Patriot Act represents a potential for abuse. I don’t know what rights I have lost there. Yet.

Speculation. You can't prove a negative.

59 posted on 05/02/2011 2:50:11 PM PDT by Jim Scott
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To: Jim Scott
Precautions must be taken. Any 'freedom lost' is due to the threats from Muslim suicide bombers, not the government that is acting to protect it's citizens. Although we can quibble about the best methods to ensure that protection...

You sound like the guy who renamed concussion grenades "flash-bangs."

I wonder if your wife or daughter will "quibble" with a TSA hand down their pants. Or would you just tell them to look at the ceiling and think of America?

Your trivialization of enforced public rape is monstrous. What TSA is doing will go down in history as one of the most reprehensible atrocities a government ever forced on e free people, and it is UTTERLY unnecessary. And as an easy example, I give you Israeli airport security as a perfect counter example.

But needing to look to Israel for a clue when your own people are being sexual assaulted by a lying, laughing government is pathetic.

Go polish a jackboot.

66 posted on 05/02/2011 3:09:48 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: Jim Scott

The TSA groping is definitely annoying but we’ve experienced attempted airline bombings (Richard Reid -’the shoe bomber’ in 2001 and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab,’the underwear bomber’ in 2009. Had these men been successful, hundreds would have died.


And the TSA did nothing to help.


70 posted on 05/02/2011 4:29:33 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (...a.k.a. "Norm L. C. Bias")
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