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Clinic linked to ‘House of Horrors’ abortionist continues despite unsafe/illegal practices
LifeSiteNews ^ | 5/11/11 | Rebecca Millette

Posted on 05/12/2011 10:57:13 AM PDT by wagglebee

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana, May 11, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – An abortion facility in Baton Rouge, Louisiana linked to notorious abortionist Kermit Gosnell has continued to operate even after investigations uncovered a long history of dangerous criminal and medical violations and after the National Abortion Federation (NAF) revoked the abortion facility’s membership, LifeSiteNews.com has learned.

According to the Pennsylvania Grand Jury report that uncovered the chilling practices at Gosnell’s “House of Horrors” clinic in Philadelphia, the Delta Clinic is owned by Leroy Brinkley, who also owns Atlantic Women’s Medical Services, located in Wilmington, Delaware. Gosnell, who is facing the death penalty for allegedly murdering seven newborn infants as well as a former adult client, was employed at the Wilmington clinic, where he would sometimes work when not at his Philadelphia facility.

Additionally, one of Gosnell’s employees, Eileen O’Neill, was a former employee at Delta, and was introduced to Gosnell by Brinkley. O’Neill was arrested with Gosnell and is accused of falsely representing herself as a doctor to patients at Gosnell’s Philadelphia practice.

Delta has been the scene of Gosnell-like practices for years, with massive state and federal regulation failures, botched abortions, including the deaths of at least two women, the use of unlicensed doctors, and extensive falsification of records – much of which has been frankly admitted to by the clinic.

Earlier this year Louisiana Senator David Vitter wrote to Governor Bobby Jindal calling for an investigation into the facility, and possibly its closure. “Recent news reports connecting the Delta Clinic to the allegations being charged against this horrific abortionist in Philadelphia could justify shutting down the Delta Clinic, and we must take the appropriate steps to prevent endangering the lives of Louisiana women and children,” he said.

However, despite the heightened public scrutiny of the facility in the wake of the Gosnell arrests, it is still business as usual at Delta.

One victim of the Delta clinic, referred to as “Jane Doe” for confidentiality reasons, told LSN this week that after two abortion pills prescribed by the clinic during her 2009 abortion failed, doctors at Delta botched a D&C abortion procedure which she says necessitated a hysterectomy a year later. 

“I tried to file medical malpractice against them, because due to the mutilation they did to me, I had to have a hysterectomy,” Jane Doe told LSN.

“However, the attorney says he cannot ‘prove it’ because a year had passed, no doctor documented a reason.  When I had the biopsy of the abnormal tissue during the hysterectomy, the OBGYN said its, ‘Old Scarring.’  The only surgical procedure that I ever had was the abortion. So, I know that’s why I had scar tissue.” 

In a witness affidavit from April 2011, Jane Doe recounted the physical and verbal abuse she suffered at the hands of the abortionist and workers at Delta. 

Doe says she remembered herself and other clients being “herded like cattle” by “rude” workers at the clinic.  During her D&C operation, Doe says she was yelled at and threatened physically by the abortionist and never given any type of anesthesia.

“I was having surgery with no type of anesthesia whatsoever and I was told not to move due to pain or Doctor would yell at me more … It hurt so badly,” said Doe.

Following her hysterectomy last year, Doe attempted to obtain her record from the Delta Clinic, but without success.  “They are always closed when I go there.  When I call they answer and are rude and don’t care about my records.  Plus, they say they are ‘really not even open.’  I wouldn’t trust the records anyway as I have read another affidavit from a former worker that explains that every patients’ records are the same routine answers,” Doe told LSN.

“Jane Doe” is not the only victim from the Delta Clinic.  Pro-lifers from the Baton Rouge Holocaust Memorial for the unborn, formerly the site of the old Delta Clinic, have watched the abortion facility for years. They have obtained state-documented evidence indicating child molestation, the bringing of at least one underage girl across a state line for an abortion, and numerous Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) violations.

Upon the request of Attorney Mike Johnson for the Holocaust Memorial, Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals (DHH) conducted a thorough investigation of Delta in 2009. 

The result of the investigation was a 41-page Statement of Deficiencies.

Among violations noted by the DHH, Delta was accused of failing to “ensure sterilization of syringes and intravenous injections … to prevent infection and cross-contamination,” failing “to provide pre-abortion counselling as mandated by law,” failing to “provide required records to OPH Vital Records Registry,” failing to “ensure pre-op assessments” for patient medical conditions, and failing to “maintain confidentiality of patient information and records.”

Most significantly, Delta was also found to have “fraudulently pre-printed all of its state forms … indicating there were no complications with any abortions”; Delta has admitted to the fraud.

Pro-lifers say that Delta’s falsification of reports also means that the entire state’s records on abortion statistics for years past are grossly underestimated. 

“This practice of falsifying legal documents to the DHH’s Office of Vital Records…is tantamount to the largest travesty of justice ever perpetrated by the medical establishment under the guise of women’s reproductive health care,” Richard Mahoney of the Holocaust Memorial told LSN.

While the Louisiana DHH now watches the clinic closely and conducts routine investigations, attorneys and those involved in the case maintain this is insufficient. 

An attorney for the Holocaust Memorial told LSN that the Delta case indicates the kind of activity that could be going on at any number of abortion clinics without public knowledge.  He has demanded that corrections be made to all Delta’s falsified records and adequate penalties issued for offenses. 

Witness “Jane Doe” also testified to the need for greater public awareness. “The public needs to know that you only have one body and that child is one unique innocent child.  Delta offers no counselling,” she told LSN.  “The Doctor butchered me to say the least. That is my opinion.”

“I live life every day in mourning that I wish I never had the abortion and grieve for the child I should be raising,” she said. “I wonder if I was having a girl or boy.  I dream at night about a little baby girl, so I refer to the unborn baby as ‘she.’  I even named her without even knowing that the baby would have been female.”

“I have to live with the choice I made, the scars that I have and the images I see at night. There is always a better way.  Seek it!”


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: abortion; kermitgosnell; moralabsolutes; prolife
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An abortion facility in Baton Rouge, Louisiana linked to notorious abortionist Kermit Gosnell has continued to operate even after investigations uncovered a long history of dangerous criminal and medical violations and after the National Abortion Federation (NAF) revoked the abortion facility’s membership,

So, this abortion mill is so bad that even the other baby butchers won't have anything to do with them.

1 posted on 05/12/2011 10:57:18 AM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser
Pro-Life Ping
2 posted on 05/12/2011 10:58:14 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; Amos the Prophet; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 05/12/2011 10:58:59 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I can never understand “pro-lifers” trying to get such places shut down. These houses of horror are one of the best advertisements against abortion.

I mean, c’mon...Somebody expects a death-house to be a loving, cheery place? Full of smiling, happy people serving the well-being of their fellowman? Ha.

This “Jane Doe” creep sounds like a john complaining because the whore he hired had a padded bra. Or a junkie complaining he got stiffed with a nickel bag of Italian seasoning. You enter that world, you deal with its inhabitants.

The house-of-horror effect is part and parcel of the evil business of butchering babies. You want your baby made dead? You have to deal with butchers. Florence Nightingale doesn’t work there.

For Florence Nightingale, go someplace where they value life.


4 posted on 05/12/2011 12:45:55 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
I can never understand “pro-lifers” trying to get such places shut down. These houses of horror are one of the best advertisements against abortion.

A baby is aborted EVERY 24 SECONDS in America and you think that the abortion rate would go down in pro-lifers quit protesting?

Your post has "concern troll" written all over it.

5 posted on 05/12/2011 1:04:51 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
you think that the abortion rate would go down in pro-lifers quit protesting?

You think your position looks better after you get done pummelling a straw man into smithereens?

Tell ya what, if you want to dispute my position, start by summarizing it honestly. If you don't want to dispute my position, don't bother replying to me, and thus save us both the typing.

Your post has "agree with me 100% or you're pro-abortion" written all over it.
6 posted on 05/12/2011 1:21:37 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; Lesforlife; ...
You think your position looks better after you get done pummelling a straw man into smithereens?

What position is that? You mean my pro-life position?

Tell ya what, if you want to dispute my position, start by summarizing it honestly.

Hey troll, I QUOTED your position, how can it get more honest than that.

Here we'll try it again.

I can never understand “pro-lifers” trying to get such places shut down. These houses of horror are one of the best advertisements against abortion.

Your post has "agree with me 100% or you're pro-abortion" written all over it.

I've never said that a person who doesn't completely agree with me is pro-abortion, but I will say that a person who OPPOSES SHUTTING DOWN ABORTUARIES is pro-abortion.

Hope I cleared everything up for you.

7 posted on 05/12/2011 1:30:00 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: LearsFool

What was your point in posting to this thread?


8 posted on 05/12/2011 1:57:52 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee

Wow.

Sounds like you want these butchers to adhere to “safe” and “legal” practices. Maybe pretty-up their death-dealing a bit. Why do you want this great evil shined and polished? Is it that you don’t want the house of horrors to give “honorable” abortuaries a bad name? What’s your deal?

Me, I want their evil to be ugly and gory, not clean and sanitary. I say let the world see it for what it is, in all its ugliness and goriness. Let these places utterly reek with the blood and death that pays their salaries. That way no mother who hires out her child’s murder can claim ignorance. She’ll know what she’s getting into before she hands them the blood money.

Your mileage may...well...yours may be completely off in the ditch, I dunno.


9 posted on 05/12/2011 2:06:07 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: trisham
What was your point in posting to this thread?

What? I have to have explain why I post now?

What's your point in posting to this thread? You haven't even participated in the discussion except to ask me what my point is in posting. Are you part of the cavalry wagglebee pinged for help in dealing with someone with a different point of view?

What's wrong with you people? Can't you read? Go read my initial comment, and see if maybe someone has a wagglebee in his bonnet over nothing. Or, do like he did and shoot yourself in the foot like a fool.

Maybe y'all should start your own little no-disputing-allowed caucus if life in an echo chamber is so satisfying.

Sheesh.
10 posted on 05/12/2011 2:14:40 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool

So you want to keep abortionists doing their job so that more people will realize how horrible abortion is.

Is that correct?


11 posted on 05/12/2011 2:20:02 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

So you want to scrub away the ugliness from the house of horrors so that mothers-to-be will be fooled into thinking they’re going for a “clinic visit”?

There are, I’m convinced, plenty of young, pregnant, mothers-to-be who have been conned (often willingly) into believing it’s not a child growing inside them, that abortion is just another “visit to the doctor” to have a “growth” removed. All the white lab coats and hospital smell and insurance paperwork and medical terminology enhance the charade that this isn’t about death.

Well it IS about death. It’s ALL about death. And the more young, gullible, foolish women realize that this is a death industry, the more will have the CHOICE to spare their babies’ lives.

So no, I don’t want death all sanitized and prettied up. I want it to look, sound, smell, feel and taste like death. That way anyone who doesn’t like death can look for another CHOICE.

Clear enough?


12 posted on 05/12/2011 2:30:33 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool

I want abortionists closed up.

Do you? Or do you want them to continue to ply their trade?


13 posted on 05/12/2011 2:36:50 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: LearsFool

Imho, you’re not pro-life. You may be anti-abortion, but I’m not sure of that, either.


14 posted on 05/12/2011 2:42:20 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
There is NOTHING pro-life about this troll.
15 posted on 05/12/2011 3:39:51 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: LearsFool; Angel

My sister (who I’ve pinged to this thread) is a RN and she works for a clinic which offers free pregnancy tests, free STD tests and free parenting classes. The do not offer abortions and do not refer to abortion centers, but she also doesn’t call those who decide on abortions sinners.

I think she would agree with everything you have said.
Ignore those who are calling troll on you.


16 posted on 05/12/2011 3:52:44 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Jean S

I forgot to add, my sister’s clinic also offers free ultrasounds.


17 posted on 05/12/2011 3:57:02 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: wagglebee

Back off wagglebee, he is not a troll.


18 posted on 05/12/2011 4:00:49 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Jean S
Do you agree with the premise that we should just take a "hands off" approach to abortion clinics will be beneficial?
19 posted on 05/12/2011 4:08:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

There’s a world of difference between being anti-abortion and pro-life, imho. Someone who is pro-abortion may accept euthanasia. They may accept suicide. They may find the killing of the disabled or depressed to be acceptable.


20 posted on 05/12/2011 4:12:27 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Jean S

You may very well be wrong.


21 posted on 05/12/2011 4:13:19 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham
...but I’m not sure of that, either.

I'm not asking you to be sure of anything about me. I'm not posting about myself, but about abortion and how best to fight it. In so doing, I ask readers to consider my argument and that alone.

Think what you will about me. But I hope you'll think more about the argument I made.

To put that argument another way: We'd be better off if mothers-to-be had to get their babies killed with coat-hangers in back alleys. I mean, who wants to endure that? And more importantly, who could come away from that ordeal thinking, "Oh, it was just a medical procedure"? What sort of medical procedures are performed in back alleys with coat hangers?!

You wanna make a dent in the number of abortions? Make it obvious to every young woman who's "in trouble" that this is an ugly, bloody, deadly business, and you've neutralized the most powerful propaganda the abortion industry ever devised - the "medical procedure" lie.

If, on the other hand, we shut down only those abortuaries that operate "unsafely", how is that any different in the eyes of a young woman from shutting down a dentist because he wasn't sterilizing his instruments? Won't she just get the message that we're interested in her safety during her "tissue removal procedure"?

Better to leave the house of horrors open, and let her see what this is all about. Put the dumpsters out front, too, so she has to walk past the victims' rotting corpses. Let her see and smell what she's getting into, and fear what these Mengeles are really doing in there.

It's either that or we let them continue to wash their bloody hands in their sterile sinks, and hide their bloodthirsty hearts behind their white lab coats.
22 posted on 05/12/2011 4:34:22 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool
I don't want anyone to die. Do you?

I want abortion to be illegal.

23 posted on 05/12/2011 4:44:05 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: little jeremiah
I want abortionists closed up. Do you? Or do you want them to continue to ply their trade?

I want 'em closed up too. How's that coming along, by the way?

You close up one that exposes the bloody business for what it is, and you give cover to all the others that look so shiny and clean - the ones that kill your kid and give you a smiley-face sticker on the way out.

When killing loses its ugliness, it becomes easy to deny that it's really killing. And that's the lie that lures so many young women into these death mills.
24 posted on 05/12/2011 4:45:34 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; wagglebee; narses; Darksheare
Me, I want their evil to be ugly and gory, not clean and sanitary. I say let the world see it for what it is, in all its ugliness and goriness. Let these places utterly reek with the blood and death that pays their salaries. That way no mother who hires out her child’s murder can claim ignorance. She’ll know what she’s getting into before she hands them the blood money.

What's it like being "indwelt" by Molech?

25 posted on 05/12/2011 4:50:26 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: LearsFool

Actually, many abortion parlors are being closed up, and many abortionists are leaving the killing fiends, many retiring, and not so many new ones taking their place.

And many college age young people are becoming pro-life.

So, the especially dirty abortion parlors don’t need to stay open to convince anyone.

Many young women and men are realizing that abortion is murder without having to see the actual blood and gore. So, your argument is not only irrational, it has no basis in fact. You know, objective reality.


26 posted on 05/12/2011 4:57:59 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: trisham
I want abortion to be illegal.

How's that coming along?

How the heck are you going to get to that point without overcoming the lie that it's "just a medical procedure"? And how're you going to overcome that lie when all the "women's health clinics" are shiny and clean and sanitary and medical-looking?

I don't want anyone to die. Do you?

Why, yes, I do! I want every murdering mother to pay for the killing of her child!

I can see only one mitigating factor - which hasn't been around throughout the life of abortion's legality - and that is the devilish deception that abortion is "just a medical procedure", "just the removal of tissue". A generation of young women have been raised on this lie, while their mothers were not.

That lie has to be overcome, and the abortion industry knows that's a vulnerability. This is why there's such a battle over requiring ultrasounds. A single glance at an ultrasound is enough to prove that's a baby and not a lump of tissue to be lanced like a boil.

In order to turn women against abortion, the point has to be brought home that they are KILLING. Not "seeking medical assistance for women's issues". KILLING.

And those that kill anyway? Yes, they need to die. And may God have mercy on their souls.
27 posted on 05/12/2011 4:59:01 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool

“Somebody expects a death-house to be a loving, cheery place? Full of smiling,happy people”

You would be AMAZED at what people think.
I have friends (women) who will say bizarre things like “it’s SO AWFUL of the republicans to wage this war against Planned Parenthood! Don’t they know all the good things they do? Don’t they know abortion is just one tiny sliver of what they do? And taxpayer money doesn’t pay for it!”

And this would be a self identified “pro-life catholic” who claims she received birth control when she was younger and they were nice to her.
What can you do? They buy into the PR hook line and sinker. They believe it because they WANT to believe it - and above all - they hate republicans! If republicans are for something, they must oppose!


28 posted on 05/12/2011 4:59:36 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Jean S

Thank you, by the way. :-)


29 posted on 05/12/2011 5:06:43 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Scotswife
What can you do? They buy into the PR hook line and sinker.

Indeed they do!

Many (if not most) pro-lifers oppose abortion on Christian principles. And yet we ignore one of the most powerful tools in God's arsenal: the consequences.

The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God pronounce punishments for evil behavior, among them STDs, AIDS, wrecked homes, unbearable guilt, etc. Another is the sheer revolting ugliness that attends our bad deeds.

To assuage this ugliness, and to mitigate and avoid the consequences, is to treat only the symptoms and to permit the evil to continue. The way some on here are arguing, you'd think they were in league with the abortionists. Because the abortionists sure don't want any house-of-horrors abortuary around, making them look bad! They want that ugliness covered up!
30 posted on 05/12/2011 5:18:32 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: LearsFool

there is no difference between this abortionist and the more “acceptable” female abortionist who operates an “acceptable” clinic in my own area.

And when I say that to my lib friends, well .....they don’t like it much.


32 posted on 05/12/2011 5:28:17 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: LearsFool; darkwing104; Darksheare; wagglebee; narses
You think chopping up little babies is pretty?

Some of the alleged "Doctors" in these clinics have been known to cut the throats of infants after they are "accidentally" born alive.

I would have these places burnt to the ground and the soil sown with salt. You would keep them open and turn them into demonic carnivals where you gleefully condemn the misguided, demented and deceived women and girls who murder their children. You laugh and taunt even as you wipe the blood of infants from your twisted and perverse grin.

Run along troll. You don't impress anyone.

33 posted on 05/13/2011 3:42:58 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear
Excellent post! You nailed ever point.
34 posted on 05/13/2011 7:17:35 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: MHGinTN; LearsFool; wagglebee

The twisted little freak said, “You think chopping up little babies is pretty?” Unfortunately, the mutant sounds like he gets off on “chopped up babies.”

He seems to have crawled back into the sewer that spawned him.


36 posted on 05/13/2011 7:51:05 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear; wagglebee

Notice how many comments were pulled. And think about “why”.


37 posted on 05/13/2011 11:09:52 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah; wagglebee; LearsFool

Oddly enough, many posts where Lear gleefully cheered the judgment and punishment of women who aborted their unborn babies are still around.

It reminds me of one of Jesus’ parables...about the Pharisee and tax collector. The tax collector left justified before God. The Pharisee who thanked God for not allowing him to be like the tax collector didn’t do so well.


38 posted on 05/14/2011 8:02:40 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear; azishot

Reminds me of many things, all with stern lessons attached

(Azishot - here’s the thread I mentioned.)


39 posted on 05/14/2011 3:35:31 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: little jeremiah

Thanks, little jeremiah.

I am speechless as to how someone would not want ALL these abortion dungeons (can’t bring myself to call them “clinics”) CLOSED!!!

If it was to prove a point it didn’t work for me.

I’d like to be added to the ping list, please.


40 posted on 05/14/2011 4:01:40 PM PDT by azishot (Everyone is entitled to my opinion.)
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To: azishot

Wagglebee and I run two - Moral Absolutes and the Homosexual agenda lists, you want one or both? Just freepmail me and let me know and I’ll add your name, thanks.


41 posted on 05/14/2011 4:04:40 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Grizzled Bear
Oddly enough, many posts where Lear gleefully cheered the judgment and punishment of women who aborted their unborn babies are still around.

It reminds me of one of Jesus’ parables...about the Pharisee and tax collector. The tax collector left justified before God. The Pharisee who thanked God for not allowing him to be like the tax collector didn’t do so well.


I understand your vehement opposition now. You think women who have abortions are innocent. You think the guilt rests solely on the one wielding the knife and vacuum hose, and that the one hiring the killing is guiltless...hence your opposition to "the judgment and punishment of women who aborted their unborn babies".

You missed an excellent point from Jesus's parable: The women who hire these killers are more guilty than the killers themselves. They think they're free of guilt because, after all, it's not them who has to clean up the offal. They don't want to look at the blood and brains - that might make them feel guilty.

You don't want to look at it either. You know that the one with blood literally on his hands is guilty, so you want to wash and sanitize the heartless mother who hates her child enough to want him dead.

You want abortion clinics shut down? All abortion clinics shut down? You're going to have to go after their customers. But you're not willing to do that.

Or maybe you only want the "house of horror" clinics shut down, so that abortion can once again be safe and sanitary and we can all pretend it's not bloody, gruesome murder?

We've lost a generation of children because their mothers were so dead inside, so deranged and without affection, that they killed and killed and killed. And you want to acquit them.

Unbelievable.
42 posted on 05/14/2011 4:49:57 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; darkwing104; Darksheare; wagglebee; narses
I've supported an alternative clinic called “Life Way.” They take in pregnant teens. The clients can earn “points” by studying books on parenting and scripture. They also earn points through pursuing a High School diploma. They can exchange points for baby items (bottles, cribs, clothes, diapers, etc...). These items are donated by people like me.

You seemed to have missed the part where God hates sin but loves the sinner. You also seem to dismiss the fact that God would have all saved if only they would accept His gift of salvation.

If we were to follow your line of thinking, we would gather at the doors of the clinics and joyfully stone the foolish kids who go there to kill their unborn children (some of these are as young as thirteen) and bask in our own self righteousness.

So, what's it like being a member of the Phelps cult?

43 posted on 05/14/2011 8:55:01 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: little jeremiah
Reminds me of many things, all with stern lessons attached

Lear seems to be praying for people to get what they deserve. He ought to be careful about what he prays for...

44 posted on 05/14/2011 10:40:52 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear

You’re right, of course. These mothers just lie there kicking and screaming while some evil madman doctor rips the living child from their womb.

No, we ought not to stone them as they exit the clinic. Rather, we should celebrate their release from the clutches of these monsters who have dragged them there against their will. We should greet them with rose petals and hero’s medals for having endured so valiantly the ordeal forced upon them. They have been robbed of the children they so dearly loved and longed to give birth to, and in their innocent victimhood deserve nothing less than our every consolation and comfort.

And as for those devilish “doctors”...well actually they’re not so bad either. After all, “God hates sin but loves the sinner,” and “would have all saved if only they would accept His gift of salvation.” And as you explained so irrefutably, this can mean only one thing - that they shouldn’t have to suffer any consequences or punishment for what they’ve done.

In fact, your impeccable reasoning and wisdom have just enlightened the entire world on the question of consequences and punishment. No doubt we’ll all rejoice as prisons are thrown open and we welcome home those who’ve been locked away unjustly. After that, we can begin making amends for all who have suffered as a result of our misunderstanding God’s love for sinners, which we now understand means “nobody suffers consequences.”

God, too, can repeal His natural law, now that you’ve explained to Him that loving sinners means He doesn’t have to punish them like He always has. And all those warnings about reaping what we sow? Well, I’m sure you’ll be able to edit the Bible and bring it up to date for us.

Sheesh. I’ve never heard of a church teaching such nonsense. Which one do you go to?


45 posted on 05/15/2011 6:28:12 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: Grizzled Bear

Everyone will get what they deserve without our wanting it to happen. What I want to happy is for abortion to become illegal and for mothers to protect their children, and those who have had abortions to repent. Many have.


46 posted on 05/15/2011 7:17:42 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: LearsFool; wagglebee; narses; little jeremiah
Sheesh. I’ve never heard of a church teaching such nonsense. Which one do you go to?

Obviously, I don't go to the Phelps Cult like you.

For your information, a lot of former abortion clinic nurses have joined the pro-life movement. They are some of our most tenacious warriors. It's a good thing they hadn't met you when their conscious seared them. Otherwise you would have cemented them into their lost state!

In case you missed it, Skippy, there's a culture war out here. Kids are spoon fed lies and foolishness by the schools and media. They won't react well to your hate and vitriol. A lot of babies have been saved by operation rescue. How were the mothers turned away from sin; by the filth you spew or by demonstrations of Jesus' love?

When I meet a pregnant teen, and there are a lot out here, if she talks about abortion I don't spew condemnation. I remind her that the child inside her is a precious life, loved by God. I steer the girl towards a better alternative.

I've supported these pro life centers with my time and money. Lear, it's time for you to put up or shut up. Have you ever taken out your checkbook and supported a pro-life clinic? Probably not. How many rocks have you thrown today? Probably many.

Since you're so quick to condemn, let's see where you stand. Because as you judge, so shall you be judged.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So Lear, have you had sex outside of marriage? That makes you sexually immoral. Have you placed anything above God? We all can see you are full of pride and self righteousness and you cling to these traits; therefore, you appear to be you an idolater. The juries still out concerning your sexual orientation; but to be honest, you seem a bit of a weirdo. I've never seen a heterosexual man spew such hatred concerning women.

Let's see...so far that makes you a fornicator, an idolater and quite possibly a homosexual.

If you've ever taken something that is not yours, you're a thief. God's law does not say, "except something really small." That means if you take an employer's paperclip, you're a thief. I'm guessing most of us here have "gone a bit to large," once or twice and if you've been drunk, you're a drunkard.

So Lear, let's tally you up. You're a fornicator, an idolater and quite possibly a homosexual. You're also a thief and most likely a drunkard.

What shall we do with you?

But wait, there's more!

1 Corinthians 6:11

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

How did Jesus reach out to sinners? He didn't spew your brand of hatred. He led them the way they ought to go. He reserved his anger and harsh words for the Pharisees who, like you, were big on condemnation.

Jesus called on us to be salt and light to the world. He wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts like you.

One more thing to consider. Saul of Tarsus hunted down and persecuted Christians where ever he found them. His hands were stained by the blood of many. Jesus confronted him on the road to Damascus. Afterwards, he became Paul. If God would forgive a zealous murderer and use him to write most of the New Testament.

Abortionists are vile murderers; but only God knows if they are beyond redemption.

47 posted on 05/15/2011 7:54:41 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear
One more thing to consider. Saul of Tarsus hunted down and persecuted Christians where ever he found them. His hands were stained by the blood of many. Jesus confronted him on the road to Damascus. Afterwards, he became Paul. If God would forgive a zealous murderer and use him to write most of the New Testament.

The significance of St. Paul's conversion is lost on many.

He was a truly evil man with no redeeming qualities. He would remain, by his own admission, a very sinful man, yet God would use Paul's flaws to spread Christianity throughout the world.

God HAS also done this with abortionists and to ignore this would be sinful on our part.

48 posted on 05/15/2011 10:38:07 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Grizzled Bear

Wow. I think your post says enough without any help from me.


49 posted on 05/15/2011 2:54:11 PM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: LearsFool; wagglebee; narses; little jeremiah; azishot
Wow. I think your post says enough without any help from me.

The Holy Spirit does not need your help in convicting the hearts of sinners. Like your master, you attempt to usurp the authority of God.

Your hatred and condemnation is not of the God of Isaac and Abraham, but more in line with Moloch and Baal.

Jesus defeated your master. In Jesus' name, go away.

50 posted on 05/15/2011 6:04:54 PM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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