Posted on 06/12/2011 2:07:34 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
“The ‘free will’ argument doesn’t launder very well with me. Some must choose sin in order to fulfill prophecy. The Bible is riddled with such situations and stories of God allowing this or that...”
Not “must choose” but “will choose”. God, as the Author of the dynamic that is Human Nature knows that some will choose against Him. They are no more a puppet or helpless than those who choose with Him.
Does this mean God isn’t fair and just? Or maybe there’s really no God at all?
****
The answer to your question is simple I see it my local Tea Party members. They want justic but they also do not want to give up ther comfort zone.
Matthew 15:8
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Isaiah 29:13
13 ¶Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Eph 6
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things:
22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.
23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
Many want the same protection we had in past but the light of Christ is with drawing from the earth and the opposition is increasing reign.
Because so many did nothing
We all heard the saying when good men do nothing
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)
So much of the history of the struggle between good and evil can be explained by Edmund Burke’s observation. Time and again those who profess to be good seem to clearly outnumber those who are evil, yet those who are evil seem to prevail far too often.
Seldom is it the numbers that determine the outcome, but whether those who claim to be good men are willing to stand up and fight for what they know to be right.
There are numerous examples of this sad and awful scenario being played out over and over again in the scriptures.
Look at all the commandments and moral deacay that has been allowed to take place.
Yet men will say WORDS God, country etc but really don’t want to change their ways nor their hearts.
Conclusion
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Gal. 6:7). Those who fail or refuse to do good in the face of evil are sowing some dangerous seeds. They are doing nothing good as Jesus commanded them to do; they are helping evil to win and have ceased being good and have become partakers of the evil they did nothing to stop.
Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not sit by and do nothing. Stand up and be counted, speak up against evil and speak out against evil men and their sinful deeds.
http://www.padfield.com/1997/goodmen.html
Jesus said
John 15:12
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
1 John 4:7
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Romans 12:10
10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Romans 13:8
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
when I use excerpts from my faith it causes many to have a melt down and rage and miss the message.
LDS Prophets warn us of the dangers facing America
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehD390q9G3k
Many would rather trash The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and recived the mark of the beast than to prepare to come to Zion!
Revelation 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 13:17
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
http://lds.org/scriptures/search?lang=eng&type=verse&query=mark+of+the+beast
Come To Zion While Babylon Falls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R9x_um9Cak
Sometimes truly awful people become convicted of their sins and decide to repent. Other times people ponder events such as you describe and ask themselves the kinds of question you’re asking (or ask themselves the “big questions” in life: why are we here, where are we going, what is the meaning of life, why do bad things happen to good people). As a result of this search for answers many find the truth they are looking for. God uses the circumstances of our lives to draw us to Him.
These people you describe have their reward and it will only be temporal and not eternal. They will pay for what they’ve done and said (and so will I...you too).
If nothing bad ever happened to us why would anyone ever seek God? And, if nothing bad ever happened to us when we become a Christian, people would only become Christians so that nothing bad would ever happen to them.
IF GOD EXISTS and IF Jesus is God’s Son why would God allow His Son to die on the cross? IT WAS NECESSARY...He paid a debt He did not owe because we owe a debt we cannot pay.
Justice requires punishment. His mercy provided the payment.
If God exists = True
and
If Christ = God’s Son
and
If Christ’s Death on Cross = Payment for the sins of the world
then IT MATTERS!
If IT MATTERS
and
If One’s behavior suggests that IT MATTERS = True
then Salvation = True
else
Salvation = False
Read the book of Ecclesiastes and Job. It's the best you're going to get in this world.
Have no fear, canuck. This world is unfolding as it should.
Satan currently has a free hand in this world. This is why God instructs us that we are not part of this world. It is corrupt and we are to be separate. Jesus promised us that the world would hate us (Christians), because it hated him.
Sarah Palin is a Christian, and this is the primary reason for the over-the-top hatred. Remember the vile hatred spewed forth on Bush? Same thing - he is a Christian. The left is full of hate for Christians and become unhinged. Ronald Regan - also a Christian. The left hated him.
Democrats will overlook almost anything, whereas Republicans, who traditionally preserve Christian values, will toss their offending peers.
This is the best explanation I can offer - hope it helps. Whatever you do, don’t doubt for one minute that God is there, in control. He loves all, but must be very saddened by what goes on in this “God forsaken” world. Keep believing, walk the walk, and hold onto a high standard even while the rest of the world sinks into the swamp.
Because we humans insisted it be that way.
He offered to teach/guide us in the good ways...in His ways.
He said ‘you can have anything you want, just don't eat from that tree over there’.
We said ‘we know better than You...eating from that tree is just fine’.
He said ‘ok...then you're on your own...and just like now, you'll make bad choices over and over...I tried to help you but you rejected Me and My direction’.
my 2¢
In all your whining about fair and just do you think God is like Fox news?
Ever think about the concept of the hereafter? Hell? Heaven?
You want the hand of God to satisfy you here and now, and you sound like a teen aged, spoiled, liberal Canadian.
Because where sin did abound, Grace did much more abound. He’s letting the chaff grow up with the wheat. But His justice doesn’t sleep. He IS keeping score.
I don't have an answer for any of your other questions, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. I don't know why things happen the way they do. To ask that question, you might as well ask why God decided to create at all. We will never know the answer to that question here, and even if we did, we probably wouldn't understand it.
I will say this though, God has more faith in us, than we will ever have in him. The fact that we're all still here certainly makes that clear, at least as far as I'm concerned. If you really want to believe, then open your heart, humble yourself, and talk to him. He is always listening, while most of the times, we are not. Sometimes we need a good smack in the head to get our attention, so my advice to you is, if you are truly sincere, don't wait, do it now. He will answer you, but listen with your heart, and not your mind. Be, as a child, and know. All God wants, is for us to love him, and love has no basis in reason.
An outright fraud like Barack Obama gets elected, keeps spreading his lies and destruction, and keeps living the high life, with no penalty -
You assume facts not in evidence.
You have no idea what penalty Obama may be suffering or will suffer for his actions. God acts in his own time not ours and to his will not ours
Another thing to realize is that you’re really not any better than those “creeps”. We all deserve eternity in Hell but I’m so thankful for God’s grace.
Thank You fot a thoughtful argument on a Sunday morning. It’s good to stop and consider God occasionally in your weekly travels.
>>In my case, it keeps getting worse. I see no hope of restoration.
It won’t get better in our lifetimes, but this generation must return to God or we doom other generations to worse than we’ll ever see.
“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)
Chaguito: Good scripture reference. For those who don’t want to go look in their Bible, here it is:
Psalm 73
A psalm of Asaph.
1 Surely God is good to Israel,
to those who are pure in heart.
2 But as for me, my feet had almost slipped;
I had nearly lost my foothold.
3 For I envied the arrogant
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 They have no struggles;
their bodies are healthy and strong.
5 They are free from the burdens common to man;
they are not plagued by human ills.
6 Therefore pride is their necklace;
they clothe themselves with violence.
7 From their callous hearts comes iniquity ;
the evil conceits of their minds know no limits.
8 They scoff, and speak with malice;
in their arrogance they threaten oppression.
9 Their mouths lay claim to heaven,
and their tongues take possession of the earth.
10 Therefore their people turn to them
and drink up waters in abundance.
11 They say, “How can God know?
Does the Most High have knowledge?”
12 This is what the wicked are like—
always carefree, they increase in wealth.
13 Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure;
in vain have I washed my hands in innocence.
14 All day long I have been plagued;
I have been punished every morning.
15 If I had said, “I will speak thus,”
I would have betrayed your children.
16 When I tried to understand all this,
it was oppressive to me
17 till I entered the sanctuary of God;
then I understood their final destiny.
18 Surely you place them on slippery ground;
you cast them down to ruin.
19 How suddenly are they destroyed,
completely swept away by terrors!
20 As a dream when one awakes,
so when you arise, O Lord,
you will despise them as fantasies.
21 When my heart was grieved
and my spirit embittered,
22 I was senseless and ignorant;
I was a brute beast before you.
23 Yet I am always with you;
you hold me by my right hand.
24 You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will take me into glory.
25 Whom have I in heaven but you?
And earth has nothing I desire besides you.
26 My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart
and my portion forever.
27 Those who are far from you will perish;
you destroy all who are unfaithful to you.
28 But as for me, it is good to be near God.
I have made the Sovereign Lord my refuge;
I will tell of all your deeds.
Psalms 73:1-28 (NIV)
35 years ago, I lost a 3 1/2 year old to cancer. Where was God? That was the question I heard a lot. He was right there with me getting me through it. God didn’t ask any more of me than He was willing to do. He gave His Son for me and any who will accept Him. He didn’t promise us an easy life, He promised to be with us through the tough times. Don’t turn your back on Him. He is the ultimate victor and one day all will acknowledge it and bow down before Him, no matter their hearts.
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
Rev.19:6-7
My fellow canuck:
These are perilous times. Are you thirsty? I was.
Do you hunger for righteousness? I did. Do you really know God as father and Jesus as saviour? I did not. No answer will truly satisfy until you drink of that water, and come unto Him. God bless you.
The world is a fallen one, condemned in Genesis, because of sin. "Fair" doesn't exist in a fallen world.
In general, though, if you are concerned with evil being more successful than the good, perhaps it is because our definition of "successful" doesn't match God's. Even kings will lose everything when they die, and then will have to account for the fact that they may have spent their lives for themselves, rather than doing what God was asking them to do.
The Miracle of Freedom: Seven Tipping Points that Saved the World
from product description:
“In The Miracle of Freedom, Chris and Ted Stewart make a strong case that fewer than 5 percent of all people who have ever lived on the earth have lived under conditions that we could consider free”
“The journey to freedom has been thousands of years long. Now that it has found its place in the world, the question for those of us who experience its benefits is simply this: Will we work to preserve the miracle of freedom that we enjoy today?”
WILL WE WORK TO PRESERVE THE MIRACLE OF FREEDOM THAT WE ENJOY TODAY?
Canuck conservative - we take for granted the freedom we have enjoyed. Very few on earth have had what we have. We are being put to the test now. I am going to order this book. It’s time for us all to WAKE UP as you are now. Nothing is handed to us on a silver platter like we assumed freedom is.
The Miracle of Freedom: Seven Tipping Points that Saved the World
from product description:
“In The Miracle of Freedom, Chris and Ted Stewart make a strong case that fewer than 5 percent of all people who have ever lived on the earth have lived under conditions that we could consider free”
“The journey to freedom has been thousands of years long. Now that it has found its place in the world, the question for those of us who experience its benefits is simply this: Will we work to preserve the miracle of freedom that we enjoy today?”
WILL WE WORK TO PRESERVE THE MIRACLE OF FREEDOM THAT WE ENJOY TODAY?
Canuck conservative - we take for granted the freedom we have enjoyed. Very few on earth have had what we have. We are being put to the test now. I am going to order this book. It’s time for us all to WAKE UP as you are now. Nothing is handed to us on a silver platter like we assumed freedom is.
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