[MikeSteelBe]

The perps in the 1986 FBI Miami shootout were totally clean and sober, yet killed agents after taking lethal, but delayed effect gunshots.

I believe it was attributed to their military training, because there have been cases of people dying from the shock of non-lethal shots as well.

[mad_as_he$$]

Yup, I remember that. It shook the LEO world deeply when they realized that people who were not just criminals actually had the will to complete the mission.

[M1903A1]

SFL

[hiredhand]

Er... military training? No military training teaches one to stay focused and relatively level headed during a lethal force encounter. Nothing I was ever taught prepared me for an encounter with the very first person who actually wanted to harm me because I wore a uniform. If a person were ever in a "hot spot" over time, that will definitely cause a different mindset and reactions. But it's difficult to impossible to actually "train" people to be calm under the conditions in a firefight... or any other sort of fight for that matter.

There's a lot of documentation and still living witnesses that unfortunate event in 1986 and the FBI made many, MANY tactical errors. Among other things, they were policing brass before reloading. But aside from that, it was largely an issue of .38 SPCL revolvers up against a determined badguy who had a Ruger Mini-14 (or where there two of them?). There are many documented instances of people sustaining lethal wounds and not realizing it until they collapse from blood loss.

Not to be hard on you... I just doubt that military training had anything to do with it. :-)

[SJSAMPLE]

IIRC, Maddox was out right away, but Platt suffered a major wound to his brachial artery (left arm) and still continued on to kill two more FBI agents. The names might be reversed, but one of them kept on charging while the other was out almost immediately. Those guys went into the fight amped up and most people are in shock/denial almost before the gunplay starts.

The big takeway is that handguns suck when you’re up against rifles (mini-14s, IIRC).