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5 Signs Of American Decadence
Townhall.com ^ | July 12, 2011 | John Hawkins

Posted on 07/12/2011 7:43:29 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: wintertime

Parents first have to become aware that there is a problem. Then they have to care enough to change it. To the chagrin of the NEA and state-related teachers unions about five percent of children are now home schooled. And that number continues to grow as parents become more aware and care more about what their children are learning.

Back in the 1960s and 70s home schooling was unheard of. Are Leftists trying to stamp it out? Of course, but people are taking them to task whenever and wherever they try.


41 posted on 07/12/2011 6:24:40 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: The Theophilus

“If My People will humble themselves and pray, turn from their wicked ways, and seek My Face, then will I hear from Heaven, and heal their land.”

BUZZZ!

Sorry, that was true only for the Jews under the Old Covenant. We are under Grace now.

Please tell us which of the Ten Commandments no longer have to be obeyed now that you are under grace.


42 posted on 07/12/2011 6:44:18 PM PDT by WestwardHo (Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad.)
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To: GatorGirl
I seriously doubt kids think about where the money comes from.

At an early age most children know that their parents do not pay tuition and that the government pays for it. If the government can give them tuition-free school, why not a thousand other free things?

And many parents pay as much in property taxes as they would in tuition.

More money is spent on government 12 -K education that is spent on the military. This included all federal, state, and local expenditures and does not include what is spent on higher education. It's becoming clear that if state and federal budgets are to be balanced the government K-12 entitlement must be corralled.

I guess you’re against property taxes paying for police and fire too, huh?

Many communities, such as mine, have no police force. We have an all volunteer fire department as well that is equipped with the best money can buy and the firemen are extremely well trained.

Nearly every dime we pay in taxes goes to support Marxist dominated, GODLESS, schools that are establishing and preaching the religion socialism, collectivism, and godless secular humanism.

43 posted on 07/12/2011 7:25:23 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: af_vet_rr
Just end them starting this fall.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The same children who are getting an education today would get one in the fall.

The only children who are being educated today are already being afterschooled. The only thing government schools do is send home a tuition-free a curriculum for the parents and children to follow.

Conservatism and socialist-funded, godless, compulsory, and collectives voter mob run government schools are incompatible.

44 posted on 07/12/2011 8:03:11 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: af_vet_rr
In private schools matters regarding the religion taught is decided privately between the parents, the teachers, principal, and members of the private school board.

It is impossible for any government schools to be religiously neutral. If government schools are godless, then the children WILL learn to think and reason godlessly. They must merely to cooperate with the classroom instruction. This is not religiously neutral.

If government were to choose a god-centered worldview, as the very earliest government schools in the mid-1800s to 1900s did, then whose denomination will they favor? If they attempt to be generically lukewarm, as in the first government schools then it teaches children to be lukewarm about religion. Also...We know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth!

45 posted on 07/12/2011 8:15:09 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

So you have no law enforcement resources whatsoever and a VFD with equipment which miraculously appeared in the bay without being purchased by taxpayers. Amazing!

And what do you think people who can’t pay tuition should do? Relegate their children to illiteracy? Wow.

ps My kids go to Catholic school-we can afford it.


46 posted on 07/12/2011 9:22:21 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: wintertime
More money is spent on government 12 -K education that is spent on the military.

There are over 60 million children in school versus 3 million adults in the military. That's not a good argument. That's like saying the United States spends more money on something than Switzerland does.

Many communities, such as mine, have no police force. We have an all volunteer fire department as well that is equipped with the best money can buy and the firemen are extremely well trained.

Must be nice. Too bad the majority of us in the US live in areas that need professional police and fire departments.

Myself, most of my friends and family, and my kids, came through those same "GODLESS" Marxist schools you are raving about, and none of them turned out to be anything like what you describe. My daughter is a pilot in the Air Force and my son is a Marine, and maybe they were somehow indoctrinated through JROTC, or maybe they grew up on or around military bases, with a father and uncles in the military.

I'm not going to argue that there aren't problems with the schools and the federal government - I'm from Texas, and unfortunately, George W. Bush and Teddy Kennedy based No Child Left Behind partly on Texas schools, something which Rick Perry likes to brag about. That's actually strange when you think about it - NCLB increases the amount of control by the federal and state governments and Perry rants about government getting involved in education. Typical Rick Perry. Anyways, I'm watching our schools go down, but it's not because of what you're talking about, it's because of apathetic parents who don't care about being parents, and it's because we have federal and state governments using NCLB to ruin these schools, to create situations where the schools are going to eventually fail. Kennedy, Bush, and Perry and other NCLB supporters, they wanted a quick fix without thinking about the long-term consequences. Or maybe they wanted more federal and state control of the schools. Either way, we're in trouble because of apathetic parents and the feds increasing their control.

I would rather have "GODLESS" schools and have parents teach their children about religion than the schools teach some kind of generic Christianity. I've been stationed in countries where the government and religion intermingle and certain religious beliefs are pushed, and only those religious beliefs, and I'd rather not have that here in the US.

As entertaining as it would be to see the Catholics and Baptists mixing it up in the school boards and courtrooms, religion needs to be taught at home or in the church.
47 posted on 07/12/2011 10:33:39 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: GatorGirl
And what do you think people who can’t pay tuition should do? Relegate their children to illiteracy? Wow.

I can tell you that his solution would dump 10s of millions of kids out of schools. That means that you and I would see a huge increase in taxes to pay for more police officers and prisons. Call me racist or that old man ranting about kids on his lawn, but dump 10s of millions of kids out of school year round and more than a few are going to find themselves interacting with local law enforcement.
48 posted on 07/12/2011 10:42:02 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr
As entertaining as it would be to see the Catholics and Baptists mixing it up in the school boards and courtrooms, religion needs to be taught at home or in the church.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a strawman. I can not defend a strawman of **your** creation.

Government schools must be abolished.

49 posted on 07/13/2011 2:50:42 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: GatorGirl
And what do you think people who can’t pay tuition should do? Relegate their children to illiteracy? Wow.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gator Girl,

Do a little research. Look at the functional illiteracy rates for native born children ( not even immigrants) and adults in this nation. MILLIONS of children and adults have already been relegated to illiteracy.

Essentially, the only children in this nation who are getting an education are those whose parents are AFTERSCHOOLING, homeschooling, and those whose parents are sending their children to private school.

Millions upon millions of children are being denied and education RIGHT NOW! In Detroit only 3 out of 4 black males drop out of school. Of those who do manage to graduate only 15% are ready for college. The functional illiteracy rate in this nation is a disgrace.

Honestly, if every government school in this nation were to close tomorrow, I seriously doubt that the educational conditions for children would be worse. They would very likely, though, be physically, emotionally, and sexually safer.

Fire Departments: Why are you amazed? This is the second town in which I have lived where NO TAX money went to the fire departments. Our fire and paramedic services were absolutely first rate. Hm?...I would go so far as to state that towns that provide volunteer fire and paramedic services are actually the majority in this nation.

Maybe you should get out a little.

As for police: It's not amazing. We have NO police in our town. We police ourselves. Nearly every household in our county is armed. On the extremely rare occasion that professional investigators are needed we contract for them from out of the county, the state police, and sometimes out of state contractors. We do have a very minimal skeleton crew of police on the county level.

50 posted on 07/13/2011 4:06:20 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

You didn’t answer the question. What would you do about those children born to losers who can’t afford private education or are not capable of home schooling Seriously.


51 posted on 07/13/2011 5:16:46 AM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: GatorGirl
You didn’t answer the question. What would you do about those children born to losers who can’t afford private education or are not capable of home schooling Seriously.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What makes you think they are getting an education now?

By the way...You mentioned that you send your kids to Catholic schools.

Are you aware that in Wichitah, Kansas, every Catholic child has access to a tuition-free Catholic education? What are they doing that other denominations are not? They surely couldn't be any richer than the rest of us.

52 posted on 07/13/2011 5:53:09 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: GatorGirl

There are over 60 million children in school versus 3 million adults in the military.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Last I checked 60 million kids were not being given a salary but their 3 million teachers were. And...When was the last time you saw a teacher driving a one million dollar tank or flying a 2 million dollar helicopter to school?


53 posted on 07/13/2011 5:57:49 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: af_vet_rr
There are over 60 million children
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

By the way....The last I checked, the population of **all** K-12 aged children was about 57 million. It is my understanding that nearly 5% of kids are homeschooled ( a percentage that grows larger every year) and approximately 15% are privately institutionalized for their educations.

Now throw into the mix the charters which are privately owned but still under considerable fascist control by the government and support for government schools is eroding in the voting booth.

54 posted on 07/13/2011 6:04:43 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

I pay tuition. I guess the Catholic kids in Wichita are also learning to mooch, by your logic.

You still refuse to answer my reasonable question. I presume it’s because you have no answer. I’m done with this conversation. Have a great day!


55 posted on 07/13/2011 2:06:46 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: wintertime

I pay tuition. I guess the Catholic kids in Wichita are also learning to mooch, by your logic.

You still refuse to answer my reasonable question. I presume it’s because you have no answer. I’m done with this conversation. Have a great day!


56 posted on 07/13/2011 2:07:03 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: wintertime

I pay tuition. I guess the Catholic kids in Wichita are also learning to mooch, by your logic.

You still refuse to answer my reasonable question. I presume it’s because you have no answer. I’m done with this conversation. Have a great day!


57 posted on 07/13/2011 2:07:17 PM PDT by GatorGirl (Herman Cain 2012)
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To: GatorGirl
I pay tuition. I guess the Catholic kids in Wichita are also learning to mooch, by your logic.\
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The students attending tuition-free Catholic schools in Wichita, Kansas, are learning gratitude. And...By the example of the Catholic adults in their lives they are learning about the blessings of tithing.

They are learning about the blessings of service freely given and without the threat of armed police action at the door.

They are learning that when a community of believers cooperate, with faith in Jesus Christ, that they can move mountains.

As for your question:

Illiteracy rates for those attending government schools are a disgrace. My answer is, that if the government schools were closed three things would happen:

1) These kids would not do any worse than they are now in terms of illiteracy and innumeracy.

2) If government schools were to close tomorrow, large numbers of children would be safer outside of these horrific and violent schools. Far too many children are already attending schools that are soooooo dangerous that it would, indeed, be better for them to never attend. Adults can and do fix illiteracy and innumeracy, however, the emotional and physical scarring from the abuse that happens too frequently in many schools often lasts a lifetime. The spiritual damage for **all** children who **will** learn to think and reason godless has eternal consequences.

3) Americans are enormously generous. If government schools were to totally shut down tomorrow, there would be an outpouring of generousity to fund private voucher foundations. Yes, it would be chaotic for a little while but within a year or two the children of this nation would be in better educational settings. We would see schools that are similar in many ways to the educations that our Founding Fathers’ enjoyed. This would include:

Homeschool cooperatives, as exist now
Some private tutoring by neighbors, friends, relatives, and church volunteers.
Some professional tutoring
Small one room schools organized by friends and neighbors with mixed aged children.
Apprenticeships for teens
Home-based academies to prepare the brightest children, whose parents can afford it, for entrance into college in their early teens. ( Homeschoolers are already blazing the way, in this regard.)

We would also see:

** qualifying exams, as Charles Murray suggests, starting in first grade through graduate school.

** FREE FREE FREE curriculums and FREE qualifying exams from on-line. schools. The producers would be paid through advertising. The very best teachers would present courses from K-12, and some would become as rich as Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerman.

** The growth of small education academies that would resemble professional offices in their organization. Highly experience teachers would be the “partners” (as owners) and associate teachers would work under their direction.

Finally....I have **consistently** posted that I believe we should **begin** the process of complete privatization. I do NOT NOT NOT recommend that all government schools be closed tomorrow.

58 posted on 07/13/2011 2:42:24 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: GatorGirl

You still refuse to answer my reasonable question.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The very fact that you are ask these questions, and distrustful of a world without collectivist schooling, is a result of having attended socialist-funded, compulsory, godless, and voter mob collectivist government schools.

In a generation or two, citizens will be making the same comments and asking the same questions about the possibility of moving from collectivist medicine to free market medicine that they now ask about free market education.


59 posted on 07/13/2011 2:46:42 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: af_vet_rr
The very fact that you are making these comments and asking these questions, and are distrustful of a world without collectivist schooling, is a result of having attended socialist-funded, compulsory, godless, and voter mob collectivist government schools.

In a generation or two, citizens will be making the same comments and asking the same questions about the possibility of moving from collectivist medicine to free market medicine that they now ask about moving from collectivist schooling to free market education.

60 posted on 07/13/2011 2:50:17 PM PDT by wintertime
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