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Fla. lawsuit: Can doctors ask patients about guns?
Associated Press ^ | Wednesday, July 13, 2011 5:13 PM EDT | CURT ANDERSON AP Legal Affairs Writer

Posted on 07/13/2011 9:35:44 PM PDT by Hunton Peck

MIAMI (AP) — Doctors in Florida are fighting a first-of-its-kind law requiring them to have a legitimate safety concern before they start asking a patient about guns.

The physicians contend the new law is too broad and they should be free to ask patients and parents about firearms in the house to make sure people know how to keep them safely locked away. Doctors routinely offer similar advice about other household risks, from the dangers of tobacco use to swimming pools.

Gun rights supporters who pushed for the new law believe questions about gun ownership are an invasion of privacy, and say some people have been dropped by doctors simply because they refused to talk about firearms.

The law, signed by Republican Gov. Rick Scott, took effect June 2. It forbids doctors from inquiring about guns unless the information is "relevant to a patient's medical care or safety, or the safety of others."

Doctors' groups representing about 11,000 physicians in Florida immediately sued, calling on a federal judge to block the law. They say the law is already having a chilling effect on meaningful conversations about firearms with patients, which professional medical organizations have for years advocated as good practice. Many patient questionnaires ask about gun ownership.

"Making sure patients understand the risks around them is a critical part of a doctor's mission," Douglas Hallward-Driemeier, an attorney for the physicians' said Wednesday during a court hearing on the lawsuit.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke didn't issue a ruling but asked skeptical questions of the doctors.

"What's relevant about asking about my gun when I came in with a cold?" said Cooke, a 2004 appointee of President George W. Bush. "Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe the questionnaire is overbroad and not the statute."

(Excerpt) Read more at centurylink.net ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: cooke; doctors; guns; marciacooke; patients; rkba
My initial thought is that I want doctors to be free to ask anything they want, and I want to be free to chose a doctor who sticks to his knitting and addresses only the medical issues I present. But I'm sure it's more complicated than that...
1 posted on 07/13/2011 9:35:45 PM PDT by Hunton Peck
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To: Hunton Peck

“free to chose”

Being from the Land of Cheese, I can’t always tell my chose from my choose.

Geez. Or Gez. I’m not sure.


2 posted on 07/13/2011 9:38:02 PM PDT by Hunton Peck (See my FR homepage for a list of businesses that support WI Gov. Scott Walker)
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To: Hunton Peck

I can’t for the life of me understand why people hired or elected to do a job always want to do a job that is NOT theirs instead of what they were called upon to do!! First government officials want to micromanage every detail of our lives down to what we eat and the type of bulbs we use; now it’s doctors wanting to ask questions that are flat out none of their business! No way would I allow such personal questions from a physician. No way. I didn’t answer the majority of the census questions either — and I wasn’t the only one.


3 posted on 07/13/2011 9:39:34 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Hunton Peck
My MD/DDO has more guns than I do. hee hee hee

And he is as paranoid as I am about Obozo.

4 posted on 07/13/2011 9:40:01 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)
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To: Hunton Peck
Doctors routinely offer similar advice about other household risks, from the dangers of tobacco use to swimming pools.

About about Windex? A child can die from ingesting a few ounces of the pretty blue window cleaner that looks like blueberry punch. Do you ask them about that?

Anyone who answers these busybodies with anything other than "none of your f***ing business" is a total fool.

5 posted on 07/13/2011 9:43:01 PM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: Texas Fossil

Mine carries to work.

Half our appt. time is him and hubby drooling over this month’s new gun rags.


6 posted on 07/13/2011 9:50:00 PM PDT by Salamander (You trap. You kill. You eat. That's what a good spider does.)
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To: Hunton Peck
...calling on a federal judge to block the law.

When you can't win the debate with sound reason and logic, call on black-robed mommy tyrant.

7 posted on 07/13/2011 9:52:51 PM PDT by fwdude
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To: Hunton Peck

The firearms in my home potentially are a threat to anyone that might pose a threat to the safety of any person in my home, or might trespass with evident intent to damage my property, and not to anyone else. Therefore, not the business of any third party.


8 posted on 07/13/2011 9:53:03 PM PDT by Elsiejay
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To: Hunton Peck

they can ask all they want.. and I can lie all I want.

“Do you have any guns”

Me: “Nope.. never have.. next question”

Screw them.. its none of their business.


9 posted on 07/13/2011 9:54:59 PM PDT by eXe (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: Hunton Peck

Then there is a Dr. Ludwig who says that children who are deemed to be fat by the government’s standards should be taken away from their parents.

Doctors are becoming agents of the state. Where have we seen that before?


10 posted on 07/13/2011 9:56:59 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Hunton Peck

>> My initial thought is that I want doctors to be free to ask anything they want...

I agree, but the issue has entered the realm of collusion as I understand.


11 posted on 07/13/2011 9:59:13 PM PDT by Gene Eric (*** Jesus ***)
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To: Hunton Peck

I don’t think we need doctors to tell us about gun safety, pool safety or anything related to that.

Just give us a shot of penicillin or whatever.

They don’t know any more than we do about how to live our lives.


12 posted on 07/13/2011 10:01:18 PM PDT by altura ( Palin/Ryan---or Palin/Perry (for the best looking ticket ever))
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To: Hunton Peck

If one has a gun or not its none of a doctors damn business. If any doctor asked me that I’d smile at him and say YOUR FIRED YOU NOSEY OLD BIDDY...


13 posted on 07/13/2011 10:02:44 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Hunton Peck

“My initial thought is that I want doctors to be free to ask anything they want, and I want to be free to chose a doctor who sticks to his knitting and addresses only the medical issues I present. But I’m sure it’s more complicated than that... “

Yea, it gets more complicated when they start asking your kids about guns in the house, as happened to me. It gets even more complicated when I have to start considering the grilling my kids may get when deciding on whether to even bring them to a doctor when sick.

Yes, in a perfect world, I would open the Yellow Pages (or look on a website) and it would be stated in plain English whether my kid will get grilled about guns.

But in the real world, it’s unlikely that I’ll know, until it’s too late.


14 posted on 07/13/2011 10:02:44 PM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

“Anyone who answers these busybodies with anything other than “none of your f***ing business” is a total fool.”

It depends where you live and to whom the information is disclosed. Obviously if you give your answer it’s just like not consenting to a search - sure it’s your right, but it doesn’t mean the police have to look the other way.

...in other words, your file goes in the “potential threat” file for that answer. That’s why I agree with Nancy: Just say NO...No guns, that’s it (although it does get trickier with kids in the house).


15 posted on 07/13/2011 10:05:37 PM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: eXe

they can ask all they want.. and I can lie all I want.

“Do you have any guns”

Me: “Nope.. never have.. next question”

Screw them.. its none of their business.


That’s right.

BTW, I lost all my guns in a boating accident.


16 posted on 07/13/2011 10:07:17 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: Hunton Peck
"My initial thought is that I want doctors to be free to ask anything they want...."

I agree with that part of your statement but anything I can think of outside of mental issues that would be medically relevant to a physician would relate to use of firearms not ownership.

Such as diagnosing hearing problems or escalated lead levels in blood. Or I guess a dislocated shoulder because you're a pussy that couldn't handle the 10 gauge.

Other than that, if they are just being social engineering busy-bodies then screw em'.

Maybe an actual doctor could expand on the issue

17 posted on 07/13/2011 10:08:42 PM PDT by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: Hunton Peck
I'm in Texas, therefore I assume that all the patients have guns. What a crock of solid nitrogenous waste. The AMA and most of the medical societies are filled with doctors that want to "run" stuff but don't want to do the nasty thing of seeing patients... it's beneath them.

Oh, but they want the big buck and the travel and expense accounts also.... that's why you see weasels and the leeches with white coats posing for the cameras.

Yawn, they're so pathetic.

I can see it now.

Me to patient , "you have vaginal itching and it hurts behind your eyes when you pee. So you want Norco 10's and a work note for last week and the rest of the week.... "

patient, "uh-huh"

Are you in a lot of pain... say on a 0-10 scale with 10 being the worst pain of your life and 0 being none where are you.

Patient, About a "C".

Why thank you maam. ... oh by the way do you own a gun?

Pulling up her dress and showing me male genitalia, "you mean like this?" or grabbing her purse and just opening up her purse to show the handle of a S&W .38."

Well thank you and the nurse will be in with your prescriptions in a minute..... and have a nice day.

18 posted on 07/13/2011 10:11:32 PM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat, they sh#t on.)
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To: BobL; Gene Eric

I figured that doctors wouldn’t normally ask about such a thing unless it were part of some broader, anti-gun effort. There’s a bigger issue here than just this, clearly.


19 posted on 07/13/2011 10:11:47 PM PDT by Hunton Peck (See my FR homepage for a list of businesses that support WI Gov. Scott Walker)
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To: Hunton Peck

“I figured that doctors wouldn’t normally ask about such a thing unless it were part of some broader, anti-gun effort. There’s a bigger issue here than just this, clearly.”

Yea, it DEFINITELY is. I think this crap started when the CDC started calling gun-related injuries (and deaths) ‘diseases’ and then used their communications pipelines to tell doctors to start asking about it. The doctors, particularly the pediatricians (i.e., left wing nutcases), eat this stuff up and cannot wait to start the inquisition of their patients. This is right out of DC, and pre-dates Obama, at least in my case.


20 posted on 07/13/2011 10:17:59 PM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Hunton Peck
"What if a family refuses to answer the question about guns and a kid gets killed?" said Dr. Lisa A. Cosgrove, a pediatrician in Merritt Island who added that she has a concealed weapons permit. "Who is responsible then? You tried your best to ask, but my heart is going to be crushed."

Well, this is worth a barforama

This all started in FL when docs started dropping patients who didn't answer their gun questions. To do something about it became more urgent when it was realized that with Obamacare looming down the road any answer to the GUN QUESTION would immediately end-up in a government owned and operated database (recall that one of the stated aims of BammyCare was to put all medical records online).

Many would argue that in a free society docs should be able to ask what they want and to be free to drop any patients they wish. I would only ask those that hold this opinion to realize that Democrat Socialism has got us by the boot on the neck and is distorting the market. It will become harder and harder to find a personal physician especially after you are dropped by one that has you tagged in the medical database as a "right-wing gun nut".

So the options are to either lie or pass a law outlawing the question.

21 posted on 07/13/2011 10:33:59 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici ("Si, se gimme!")
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To: Hunton Peck
The physicians contend the new law is too broad and they should be free to ask patients and parents about firearms in the house to make sure people know how to keep them safely locked away.

This is not a doctor's job. Damn nanny staters.

22 posted on 07/13/2011 10:45:26 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Hey Barry! Compromise this!!!)
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To: Hunton Peck
The last time my doctor asked me about guns. he wanted my opinion weather a .38 spl or a .40 was better for his wife as a CCW.
23 posted on 07/13/2011 10:56:36 PM PDT by BigCinBigD ("We hold it in our power, to begin the world anew")
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To: Hunton Peck

I’ve seen a statistic (I don’t know what it is based on) that says guns in America save a life every seconds. I wonder if the doctor would get jealous if I told him that?


24 posted on 07/13/2011 11:00:17 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Hunton Peck

“Making sure patients understand the risks around them is a critical part of a doctor’s mission,” Douglas Hallward-Driemeier, an attorney for the physicians’ said Wednesday during a court hearing on the lawsuit.”

Yeah? Do they warn them about the risks they were taking driving to the doctor’s appointment? The risk of high blood pressure sitting on one’s @$$ all day in the waiting room?


25 posted on 07/13/2011 11:22:19 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: BobL

Point taken. “None of your damn business” is as good as “yes”. Which makes this an “ask me no questions, I’ll tell you no lies” scenario. I’m lying before I tell anyone what I’m holding.


26 posted on 07/13/2011 11:30:34 PM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

You should remind these left-wing quacks that their medical mistakes cost 100,000 patients their lives in America every year.

How convenient that “doctors” can literally bury their mistakes.


27 posted on 07/13/2011 11:38:54 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (Palin / West in 2012 or West / Palin. Either combination will serve America well.)
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To: WKUHilltopper

Never trust a male attorney with a hypenated last name.


28 posted on 07/13/2011 11:40:23 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (Palin / West in 2012 or West / Palin. Either combination will serve America well.)
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To: Hunton Peck

Nun Yuh...


29 posted on 07/13/2011 11:42:57 PM PDT by Vendome ("Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it anyway")
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To: Hunton Peck
The government is mandating that all physician offices must have electronic medical records by 2014. Electronic medical record system is pure evil. With the old paper charts the physician and the patient know exactly where the documented conversation is and that it is locked in a cabinet secured.

The government and some commercial medical foundations have put a positive spin on EMR. The spin is that all your medical professionals will have access to your medical record at the touch of a key stroke. The down side is the government can get access.

Your private health information can be retrieved by the Federal Government for national security reason at any time.

Bottom line is do not tell a physician anything you would not want the FBI, TSA or BATF to know. If it ends up in your medical record the government will be able to easily retrieve that information.

30 posted on 07/13/2011 11:44:51 PM PDT by pterional
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To: unkus

This was no boating accident! (cue the JAWS music!)

My brother’s doctor is well aware that he owns guns. They went on a hunting trip together.

Our family doctor has never asked. If they want to hand me a brochure about “gun safety”, I’ll politely take it but it’s really none of their business.

Besides, nobody that would leave a loaded gun in reach of a small child is going to tell their doctor they do!


31 posted on 07/13/2011 11:57:20 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Hunton Peck

If a doctor is concerned enough, his or her office could give out gun safety pamphlets.


32 posted on 07/14/2011 12:02:15 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: WKUHilltopper

The risks of catching something from another sick patient in the waiting room?


33 posted on 07/14/2011 12:03:36 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: bonesmccoy; neverdem

dox??


34 posted on 07/14/2011 12:08:41 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Hunton Peck

I had a pediatrician give me a guns are hazardous to children lecture once, when I answered “yes” to the question.
Now I don’t answer the question at all except a shrug to my OBGYN who accepted “I work in downtown Dallas, sometimes in the early morning and weekends, and this ensures you will never had to treat me for rape” as a valid answer.


35 posted on 07/14/2011 12:13:04 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: Hunton Peck
"Making sure patients understand the risks around them is a critical part of a doctor's mission," Douglas Hallward-Driemeier,...

Horse nuggets! My father was a physician and I think he would say the same thing. Although he would suggest these "doctors" put their mission in a very colorfully put, but medically accurate, part of their anatomies.

36 posted on 07/14/2011 12:29:55 AM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: Hunton Peck
"Making sure patients understand the risks around them is a critical part of a doctor's mission…"

Sure it is. Do they ask about gas heaters? (risk of CO poisoning) CFL bulbs? (mercury exposure) Cars? (auto accidents) Bath water? (scalding, drowning) Family dogs? (mauling) Household cleaners? (poison, potentially toxic fumes)

That sort of justification leads to endless intrusion, abdication of personal responsibility and an excessive burden on the medical system.

37 posted on 07/14/2011 12:35:55 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: VeniVidiVici
"What if a family refuses to answer the question about guns and a kid gets killed?" said Dr. Lisa A. Cosgrove, a pediatrician in Merritt Island who added that she has a concealed weapons permit. "Who is responsible then? You tried your best to ask, but my heart is going to be crushed."

That is a barforama alright. She is saying that because she is an emotional adolescent who doesn't have a clue about cause and effect her patients should play along in order to be a Xanax substitute for her.

38 posted on 07/14/2011 12:46:32 AM PDT by TigersEye (Wranglers not Levis. Levi Strauss is anti-2nd Amendment.)
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To: Hunton Peck
Douglas Hallward-Driemeier?

Don't know who this Moonbat is, but I have a hard time taking any "male" with 2 last names seriously!!!

39 posted on 07/14/2011 3:01:18 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: Hunton Peck

I may be a little slow here but what business is it of any doctor to ask me or my family if we have weapons in the home?


40 posted on 07/14/2011 3:26:18 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO))
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To: unkus

>”BTW, I lost all my guns in a boating accident.”<

‘Boating accidents’ seem to be increasing at an alarming rate (based on what I read here at FR).

Perhaps the nosey doctors should start asking if their patients own a boat to their invasive forms? It appears that boating accidents are actually more dangerous than guns.


41 posted on 07/14/2011 3:31:00 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Doctors kill more people than guns. Good article.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/tabor010405.htm


42 posted on 07/14/2011 3:43:25 AM PDT by panaxanax (0bama >>WORST PRESIDENT EVER.)
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To: Hunton Peck

Down load and print this form and carry it with you in case your doctor asks about guns

http://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-70697.html

FIREARMS SAFETY COUNSELING REPRESENTATION:
PHYSICIAN QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY
Part One: Qualifications
I affirm that I am certified to offer (Name of Patient: ), herineafter referred to as “the Patient”, qualified advice about firearms safety in the home, having received:

Specify Course(s) of Study: _____________________________________________________________
from:
Specify Institution(s) __________________________________________________________________
on:
Specify Course Completion Date(s): ______________________________________________________
resulting in:
Specify Accreditation(s), Certification(s), License(s) etc.: _______________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________
Check one, as appropriate:
___ I represent that I have reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership. I further represent that I have reviewed all other relevant home safety issues with the Patient, including those relating to electricity, drains, disposals, compactors, garage doors, driveway safety, pool safety, pool fence codes and special locks for pool gates, auto safety, gas, broken glass, stored cleaning chemicals, buckets, toilets, sharp objects, garden tools, home tools, power tools, lawnmowers, lawn chemicals, scissors, needles, forks, knives, etc. I also acknowledge, by receiving this document, I have been made aware that, in his inaugural address before the American Medical Association on June 20, 2001, new president Richard Corlin, MD, admitted “What we don’t know about violence and guns is literally killing us...researchers do not have the data to tell how kids get guns, if trigger locks work, what the warning signs of violence in schools and at the workplace are and other critical questions due to lack of research funding.” (UPI). In spite of this admission, I represent that I have sufficient data and expertise to provide expert and clinically sound advice to patients regarding firearms in the home.
OR
___ I am knowingly engaging in Home/Firearms Safety Counseling without certification, license or formal training in Risk Management, and; I have not reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership.
Part Two: Liability
I have determined, from a review of my medical malpractice insurance, that if I engage in an activity for which I am not certified, such as Firearms Safety Counseling, the carrier (check one, as appropriate):
___ will
___ will not
cover lawsuits resulting from neglect, lack of qualification, etc.

Insurance Carrier name, address and policy number insuring me for firearms safety expertise:

____________________________________________________________________________________

I further warrant that, should the Patient follow my firearm safety counseling and remove from the home and/or disable firearms with trigger locks or other mechanisms, and if the patient or a family member, friend or visitor is subsequently injured or killed as a result of said removal or disabling, that my malpractice insurance and/or personal assets will cover all actual and punitive damages resulting from a lawsuit initiated by the patient, the patient’s legal reprerentative, or the patient’s survivors.

Signature of attesting physician and date: ___________________________________________________

Name of attesting physician (please print):__________________________________________________

Signature of patient and date: ____________________________________________________________

Name of patient (please print):____________________________________________________________

Note to patient: Indicate if physician “REFUSED TO SIGN.” Ask physician to place copy in chart/medical record.


43 posted on 07/14/2011 3:48:33 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

“Point taken. “None of your damn business” is as good as “yes”. Which makes this an “ask me no questions, I’ll tell you no lies” scenario. I’m lying before I tell anyone what I’m holding.”

Exactly...we’re told not to lie. I tell my kids that there are times when lying makes PERFECT sense and you simply must do it. This is clearly one of those cases. I’ve also reached the point where I new lie when someone demands a Social Security number, but I know full-well that they will not be using it for anything...in those cases I make a ‘typo’ (whoops). Same for phone numbers...whoops and old phone number, I guess I got confused.


44 posted on 07/14/2011 4:47:55 AM PDT by BobL (PLEASE READ: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2657811/posts)
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To: Hunton Peck

I’d like to know what actual training and expertise doctors have on the public health costs and benefits to guns, other than some political indoctrination from the leftist JAMA.


45 posted on 07/14/2011 6:19:51 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Government borrowing is Taxation without Representation)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation

It’s more like 120 or 130 thousand a year now.


46 posted on 07/14/2011 6:22:28 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: MacMattico

I have a brother who is a pediatric alergy/asthma doctor. He’s the senior partner of the practice and none of the other 24 doctors never ask the parents about guns. They’re not emergency room doctors, as my brother says. Any suspected child abuse they see is handled appropriately.


47 posted on 07/14/2011 7:43:02 AM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: JLLH

This is about creating a DE FACTO REGISTRATION.

Doctors will ask and then enter the answer in their computer records.

Thanks to GE big brother intrusive data centralization will give Obamacare full ability to look at the registration list. (for those who have not seen the creepy commecial GE is touting the centralized big brother medical database they have.)

If these doctor’s were serious they would hand a pamphlet to everyone, and not bother finding out who has what. Doctors don’t ask for a house cleaner inventory they just warn and move on.

This has NOTHING to do with medical care, this has everything to do with creating a registration list.


48 posted on 07/14/2011 7:52:35 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Dick Vomer

These are the same doctors who were rooting for the communists by opposing nuclear weapons.

I believe the judge voted against a preliminary injuction. Anybody know the judge?


49 posted on 07/14/2011 7:55:31 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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