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To: BroJoeK

There is no good reason for you to put law in quotes...

BJK “There are no mathematical “laws” of evolution, that I know of.”

Except the need/wishful think of evolution to ignore the 2nd law of thermodynamics. All systems tending toward disorder - a direct observation of all things under the sun - including the accumulation of mutations breaking down all DNA.

The opposing evolutionary wishful thinking is DNA re-writing itself for new organs, abilities, and lifeforms which by the way has never been observed in nature.

Also consider the fruit fly experiments where ‘intelligent’ re-design was super-imposed and all the mutants returned to their normal programming within a few generations.


57 posted on 09/19/2011 9:32:44 AM PDT by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
BrandtMichaels: "There is no good reason for you to put law in quotes..."

A scientific "law" is normally a mathematical expression valid under certain specified conditions.
The word "law" makes it sound like some Congress of scientists passed a rule to be enforced by the scientific Chief Executive.
In fact, it is merely a discovered relationship which is found to work whenever conditions are right for it exist.

BrandtMichaels: "Except the need/wishful think of evolution to ignore the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
All systems tending toward disorder - a direct observation of all things under the sun - including the accumulation of mutations breaking down all DNA."

If I had a dime for every time people like yourself have thrown out that argument, and every time it's been correctly explained to you, I could fully retire today! ;-)

But ever the optimist, I'll try again: the second "law" of thermodynamics is always valid under the right conditions.
One of those conditions is: for entropy (disorder) to increase, the system must be in isolation.
But the Earth is not isolated, because there is constant input of new energy from the Sun.
And under exactly the right conditions (aka "goldilocks planet" -- not too hot, not too cold), the disorder of organic molecules not only does not increase, but the reverse can happen, as we can see in laboratory experiments and on Earth;.

BrandtMichaels: "The opposing evolutionary wishful thinking is DNA re-writing itself for new organs, abilities, and lifeforms which by the way has never been observed in nature."

I'll say it again: Evolution consists of facts, theory and hypotheses.

The facts (=confirmed observations) included 1) Descent with modification and 2) Natural selection.

The confirmed theory projects these facts backwards in time and concludes that all, or nearly all, life on Earth descends from common ancestors.
Confirmations for this theory come from the fossil record, through DNA analysis and by inputs from nearly every other branch of science.

Various unconfirmed hypotheses relating to evolution include abiogenesis, panspermia and potentially, if it were ever expressed in scientific terms (how?), Intelligent Design.
Of those three hypotheses, only abiogenesis can be tested scientifically, and so that is what some scientists have been reported working on.

"Descent with modifications" can be observed in virtually every generation, albeit normally changes effecting only unexpressed sections of DNA.
But these DNA changes can be counted up to determine approximate times to common ancestors.
Over millions of generations accumulating DNA changes can be significant, and easily account for differences we see amongst closely related species such as zebras, donkeys and horses.

Tens and hundreds of millions of generations, each descending with accumulating modifications, take us all the way back to common orders, classes and phylums.

Billions of generations separate us from simple life and single celled life.

So, small modifications accumulating over billions of life-cycles can add up to a big difference.

BrandtMichaels: "Also consider the fruit fly experiments where ‘intelligent’ re-design was super-imposed and all the mutants returned to their normal programming within a few generations."

Sure but similar, more useful, changes are made every day to agricultural species which are grown around the world.
So any modification, no matter how it happens, if it improves a species chances of survival, then it will be selected for naturally, or in the case of human agriculture, by "intelligent design".

59 posted on 09/19/2011 2:17:33 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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