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To: Yaelle

I have nothing to say negative about you as a person. For all I know, you’re a great guy.

I am however citicizing your description of US law as it would apply to Obama’s situation as incomplete and inaccurate. You can’t just take situations you happened to have encountered personally and extrapolate it to Obama’s facts and circumstances.

I too would very much like to see Obama’s Indonesian records.

Indonesia (until recently) was quite strict about not tolerating dual citizenship. (Israel, by contrast, for obvious reasons, has been quite permissive in allowing Israeli citizens to hold foreign citizenship as well.)

If Obama as an adult physically present in Indonesia during the 1979-1985 period obtained a passport or a passport renewal from Indonesia claiming to be an Indonesian citizen, and it was the case that Indonesia did not allow its citizens to be citizens of any other country, then it is a pretty strong case that he necessarily intended to make allegiance to Indonesia and only Indonesia by voluntarily and affirmatively acting in that manner. As a US citizen, he was free NOT to obtain an Indonesian passport and use a US passport. But of his own free will he voluntarily obtained or renewed a status as an Indonesian citizen under circumstances where someone doing that would necessarily be understood as representing that he was NOT a citizen of any other country than Indonesia.

This assumes he did have an Indonesian passport, which I very strongly suspect, and that he did something when he was older to hold himself out as an Indonesian citizen such as renew a passport, which I also suspect. However, we do not know that as a fact.


114 posted on 08/01/2011 9:13:54 AM PDT by Meet the New Boss
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To: Meet the New Boss
If Obama as an adult physically present in Indonesia during the 1979-1985 period obtained a passport or a passport renewal from Indonesia claiming to be an Indonesian citizen, and it was the case that Indonesia did not allow its citizens to be citizens of any other country, then it is a pretty strong case that he necessarily intended to make allegiance to Indonesia and only Indonesia by voluntarily and affirmatively acting in that manner. As a US citizen, he was free NOT to obtain an Indonesian passport and use a US passport. But of his own free will he voluntarily obtained or renewed a status as an Indonesian citizen under circumstances where someone doing that would necessarily be understood as representing that he was NOT a citizen of any other country than Indonesia.

Many countries do not "allow" dual citizenship but they usually do not know when one of their citizens cross that line. How would they know? The USA knows her citizens are sometimes dual with another nation, but she does not RECOGNIZE any citizenship but to her.

It makes no difference to the USA if Obama signed on to continue his allegiance to a country that doesn't allow dual citizenship. There are probably many non-USA citizens living here who are active citizens of Indonesia, so Indonesia would never had to know IF (big if!) Obama was also an American.

Therefore nothing he did as an 18 year old renewing an Indonesian passport compromises his USA citizenship. The USA does not care (except that perhaps post 9/11 they focus on some of these people if they know about them).

Somehow we are not connecting on this. My bottom line in this conversation is that nothing Obama has done re Indonesia has legally affected his (purported prior) American citizenship. It doesn't even matter what he swore on an Indonesian document; the USA doesn't know or care.

What really does matter here is his natural born status, or his eligibility status in the eye of the American people. One would assume that NONE OF US (except the liberals who hate America) wishes a leader, of ANY PARTY, who as an adult has claimed formal allegiance to another land. I believe this would stop my cousin from running for President (the one who served in Israel's army). I believe this would curtail ANY candidate's ambitions.

This assumes he did have an Indonesian passport, which I very strongly suspect, and that he did something when he was older to hold himself out as an Indonesian citizen such as renew a passport, which I also suspect. However, we do not know that as a fact.

I suspect it too.

One other thing that neither of us has touched upon is that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Obama never had American citizenship from birth. There is some evidence that his BC is fraudulent, and there is the situation of him needing as a teen to use someone else's SS number to get his first job, and that he still used that fraudulent SS number when he filled out his military service document, and even later as an adult. What was the problem in his documentation that caused all that? And some have said that his Senatorial USA passport was the first one he'd ever had. Then how could he have traveled to Indo and Pahki without one? If he used his Indonesian passport, this might mean that Indonesian was the first nationality he ever had, and perhaps he had to be "adopted" by Soetoro even to travel to Indo the first time, or was he on Stanley's pass as a small child?

116 posted on 08/01/2011 10:16:09 AM PDT by Yaelle
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