Posted on 08/13/2011 10:01:29 AM PDT by neverdem
Too bad they can’t figure out how to store the energy. AC power has a lot of merits but storage is one of it’s limitations. And conversion to DC and back to AC is not the best solution.
Here's the vastly better solution, as shown by this large schematic:
The US has 440,000 tons of thorium-232 that can be used for the liquid fluoride thorium reactor, plus many tons of spent uranium fuel rods that could be processed into fuel for this reactor, too. If we standardized a design for a 1,000 MW LFTR, we could build hundreds of them not only to expand available power, but also phase out coal-fired powerplants, too.
Mayor Nutters Call: It is a sign of the times that basic decency has grown unusual.
The blame game: America's economic panic is the fault of Tea Partiers, S&P, speculators, and Big Business. And it's up to Obama to convince us to put country first Bob Shrum, who else?
Who Lost the Middle Class? - A question for historians in the not-too-distant future
Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.
Actually, I was hoping to donate them to the Democratic Party and allow them to run around in circles with them. May not generate much energy....but watching them drop one by one would be amusing.
Nope, there are losses in the conversion, plus batteries are nowhere near 100% efficient.
dhs12345 wrote:
Too bad they cant figure out how to store the energy. AC power has a lot of merits but storage is one of its limitations. And conversion to DC and back to AC is not the best solution.
For large scale storage, pumped storage hydroelectric is the best technology we currently have deployed. There's a pretty big lake (Carter's Lake) with this type of operation not too far from my old home in north Georgia.
Okay, first, how did this happen in Texas??? Texas freepers, can you explain this to me. I live in the Seattle area, so I am never surprised at the doofuses here doing idiot stuff like this. But, I expected Texans to be more sensible. Have I misjudged you?
Also, we now know that these wind turbines can't help much in the heat; and, that they freeze up (Minnesota, Scotland) in the winter. What the hell do they do, besides kill a lot of birds?
I would also add that there are some people who are physically affected by these things. But, who cares. As Nancy Pelosi said, "I'm saving the planet". Egomaniacs.
How is it dishonest? I thought it made its point quite well: Wind energy availability is nearly exactly out of phase with the electrical load.
Clearly, the chart needs to use two axes (clearly labeled) with one shifted off the origin in order best to make its visual point (which is not that wind energy comes anywhere close to carrying the whole load at any time). Consider how the visualization would look if you forced both curves onto the same axis.
How about some type of resonant system sort of like a tesla coil that can store millions of watts.
How about some type of resonant system sort of like a tesla coil that can store millions of watts.
You also could use sea water in heat exchanger 2 and get distilled fresh water by adding one more step, the Arabs do that with the conventional fired plants in Kuwait,Electric and Fresh water Both!
That's the big challenge with both wind and solar.
Some guys at MIT have invented a new type of flow battery they claim has ten times the energy density of regular batteries. In a flow battery, the electrolyte flows through the battery instead of residing in the battery. They envision refueling electric cars by pumping in freshly charged electrolyte (a thick black slurry they call "Cambridge crude") instead of plugging in to a charger.
The uneven output of wind and solar installations might best be put to use charging flow battery electrolyte at or near the installation instead of transporting the power long distances over expensive transmission lines and integrating it into the instantaneous electrical load. The charged electrolyte could then be pumped into vehicles, used to power utility peak load generators, or even used to power a home battery (eliminating the need for the current power grid).
Currently, the best way to store wind power is to use it to pump water from a lower elevation to a higher elevation. The problem is finding a suitable lake that isn't already in use for hydro-power.
Another idea is compressed air. But there again, you need a lot of compressed air storage. It's been proposed to use underground caverns. But, like good lakes, those are where you find them.
ping
Too bad AC power can't be stored directly in some kind of device. That would make wind and solar more compelling.
I was thinking some kind of resonant system. Of course, there is always the option of a rotating mass (momentum). The windmill itself is a rotating mass. Too simple, though.
Storage and conversion losses would have to be very low.
There would be a lot of bucks (probably Obama bucks) if someone one came up with a working prototype.
Turbines don’t work unless there is a steady wind. Until somebody figures out a practical way of storing the electricity, windmills are useless.
When I was a kid, my aunt and uncle, who never threw anything away, still had the remains of an old windcharger mounted on an old shed on their farm. The shed was full of 6-volt batteries wired in series to store the electricity, which they used to power their milkhouse. They never had electricity in their actual house until REA came along in the 50’s. This “turbine” concept is not a new idea, and it has never worked very well.
For large scale storage, pumped storage hydroelectric is the best technology we currently have deployed. There’s a pretty big lake (Carter’s Lake) with this type of operation not too far from my old home in north Georgia.
Correct.
There’s a pumped storage facility just north of where I live (tiny, but there it is). They are putting in a solar collector farm right on the road — publicity, no real use to anyone.
This summer, though, we visited a REAL pumped storage facility in western Michigan. Largest earthen dam in the (world? US? I forget). The thing was freakin’ HUGE, we drove miles of road along the base of the dam. I doubt, though, that it makes a big dent in lake michigan while they’re filling it. (Found it: Ludington Pumped Storage Plant; had to dig thru photos...the sign says 27 billion gallons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludington_Pumped_Storage_Power_Plant)
I have one that trickle charges a bank of 16 royals deep cell batteries that provide emergency power through a trace inverter.
Works well but I’m living in a place where wind averages 20mph an I don’t depend on this source. It will run basics in my home when we lose power in ice or thunderstorms etc...
They have their place but not in the commercial energy grid IMO.
Ones we have here in the panhandle of Texas are running yet the quality of power to the distribution point is so up an down its expensive to corral properly according to friends that do such for a living.
1 thorium based nuclear power plant per 1 million in population is a formula America needs to adopt.
Got to be fixed yesterday....
No, it's a scheme worthy of Atlas Shrugged. Texas oil billionaire T. Boone Pickens worked in concert with Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Congress and California legislature to use renewable energy mandates and subsidies to siphon billions of tax dollars into the pockets of Pickens and his investors.
Pelosi, Pickens plan to pick your pocket - August 2008
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