Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Texas judge throws out suit in Mexican boy's death
The Associated Press/Washington Examiner ^ | 08/18/11

Posted on 08/18/2011 5:15:09 AM PDT by markomalley

A judge in West Texas has dismissed a $25 million wrongful death lawsuit brought by the family of a 15-year-old Mexican boy killed by a Border Patrol agent.

Senior U.S. District Judge David Briones on Aug. 11 threw out the lawsuit filed against the U.S. over the 2010 shooting of Sergio Adrian Hernandez Guereca of Ciuidad Juarez.

The El Paso Times (http://bit.ly/rmUHwn) reported Thursday that the ruling says the boy was shot while in Mexico and no statutes apply in suing the U.S. government.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; mexico
More extensive article in the El Paso Times (cannot be posted to FR).
1 posted on 08/18/2011 5:15:12 AM PDT by markomalley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: markomalley

si se peude


2 posted on 08/18/2011 5:19:12 AM PDT by Beckett08 ("My Jihad means 'My Struggle' So does "Mein Kampf.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley

The Boarder Agent is a powerhead and a murderer. It was TOTALLY irresponsible of him to fire his weapon at young people who were not using or even threatening lethal force against him. He could have protected himself by retreating, firing into the air, or simply drawing his weapon and brandishing it at the youths. I don’t condone what the youths were doing but this was a TOTALLY irresponsible, overreaching act that should be punished. Please save me the constant illegal alien whine. These youths were not “illegal aliens” they were mischievous teens.


3 posted on 08/18/2011 5:24:49 AM PDT by politicalmerc (The whole earth may move, but God's throne is never shaken. I think I'll stand by Him..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
..... that the ruling says the boy was shot while in Mexico and no statutes apply in suing the U.S. government.

According to the article, the group of boys was on Mexican soil, throwing rocks, and the 15 year old was shot in the head while on Mexican soil.

This ruling might not be very good for the Border Patrol agent because Mexico may file murder charges and ask for extradition and Obama may agree to extradite.

4 posted on 08/18/2011 5:25:45 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: politicalmerc

Death is a highly underrated motivator


5 posted on 08/18/2011 5:26:58 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Rats carry plague)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: politicalmerc

“Stop throwing rocks or I’ll tell you to stop throwing rocks again”

“firing into the air”

Really? And where would the bullet go?


6 posted on 08/18/2011 5:28:35 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: markomalley
"Senior U.S. District Judge David Briones dismissed the case Aug. 11, according to court documents. The ruling basically says that because the boy was shot in Mexico, there are no statutes that would apply in suing the U.S. government."

Let me see if I understand this correctly.
A border patrol agent fired three shots at kids while standing on our side of the border across to their side of the border, killing one of the rock throwers. Because the kids feet were on Mexican soil we aren't responsible for any liability in his death? I can understand not extraditing him for a crime, but we also can't be sued for this? If the roles were completely opposite would we argue for the same decision?

7 posted on 08/18/2011 5:29:01 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AppyPappy; politicalmerc
“Stop throwing rocks or I’ll tell you to stop throwing rocks again”

Since when did "throwing rocks" become a death penalty offense?

Every male on this thread that never threw rocks as a boy, raise your hand.

Can you imagine if a Mexican Army soldier had shot an American teenager in the head, while the teenager was throwing rocks on American soil?

“firing into the air” Really? And where would the bullet go?

Well, for one thing, not into a 15 year old's brain.

But, the bottom line is that a weapon should not be fired, into the air or into a brain, unless you intend to use lethal force and are justified in using lethal force.

This Border Agent may end up being extradited to Mexico for murder.

8 posted on 08/18/2011 5:41:13 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: politicalmerc

“...they were mischievous teens.”

Yeah, well now they are dead mischievous teens.

CBP officers are law enforcement officers just like your local police officer or sheriff deputy. And guess what? If you throw rocks and bottles at them, they will probably shoot you, too. I have no problem with the agent’s actions. Nor will I shed a tear for the dead mischievous teen.


9 posted on 08/18/2011 5:44:37 AM PDT by Ernie Kaputnik ((It's a mad, mad, mad world.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
Every male on this thread that never threw rocks as a boy, raise your hand.

Your question is worded wrong. It should read, "Every male on this thread that never threw rocks at a law enforcement officer with the intent to do bodily harm raise your hand". I am quite certain most males would raise their hands.

Also, since when are rocks harmless. Muslims quite frequently kill people with them and getting hit in the head with a rock thrown by a young, strong teenager can cause serious injury or death. Throwing rocks at people should be considered life threatening, if the people you are throwing them at are armed it is also a very stupid thing to do.

I do not usually applaud cops(in fact I have no love for them generally), but this guy was within his rights to fire on the rock throwing "yutes".

10 posted on 08/18/2011 5:54:09 AM PDT by calex59
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Ernie Kaputnik

I totally agree with you.


11 posted on 08/18/2011 5:59:03 AM PDT by beandog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: politicalmerc

Duoh, throwing rocks and hitting a LEO in the head could easily be seen as attempting to commit murder. The agent has a responsibility to defend against such actions by someone trying to cause serious bodily injury. Don’t want to be shot then don’t be throwing rocks in an attempt to harm a immigration LEO. That’s simple enough to understand.


12 posted on 08/18/2011 6:00:28 AM PDT by Ron H. (Loving my Deering Goodtime 2 Classic 5-stringer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Abathar

Since the crime (if you wish to say it was a crime) happened in Mexico then the Mecicin courts is the place for the legal action to be brought forth, not the US courts.


13 posted on 08/18/2011 6:01:19 AM PDT by Ratman83
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Ernie Kaputnik; politicalmerc
CBP officers are law enforcement officers just like your local police officer or sheriff deputy. And guess what? If you throw rocks and bottles at them, they will probably shoot you, too.

You are wrong.

The Police Policy Studies Council: ..... The decision to shoot someone is the most serious choice a police officer can make. Officers throughout the state are instructed that it is a last resort to be used only in the direst of circumstances. .... the decision to use deadly force must generally be made only to save an officer or someone else from great bodily injury or death. .... And an officer cannot simply claim he feared injury or death. The circumstances of the incident must be sufficient to excite the fears of a "reasonable" person under similar circumstances.

If you were a Police officer, Ernie, and you claimed that you killed a 15 year old with a head shot, on another side of an impassable fence, because he was throwing rocks (when all you had to do was back away from the fence), you will be charged with murder.

14 posted on 08/18/2011 6:01:22 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Polybius

That depends, Can you kill someone with a rock? Ever heard of something called stoning? It was a form of capital punishment.


15 posted on 08/18/2011 6:03:06 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
Since when did "throwing rocks" become a death penalty offense? Every male on this thread that never threw rocks as a boy, raise your hand.

"Stoning to death" has been a method of execution since pre-historic times. A rock is a potentially deadly weapon, especially if there are multiple rock throwers.

Niven's Law #1:

a) Never throw s**t at an armed man.
b)Never stand next to someone who is throwing s**t at an armed man.
Violent behavior at college campuses towards National Guardsmen pretty much ended after Kent State. Perhaps the Mexican teens needed a refresher.

Can you imagine if a Mexican Army soldier had shot an American teenager in the head, while the teenager was throwing rocks on American soil?

I can't imagine a Mexican Army soldier tolerating some gringo throwing rocks at him under any circumstances.

16 posted on 08/18/2011 6:04:09 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
If you were a Police officer, Ernie, and you claimed that you killed a 15 year old with a head shot, on another side of an impassable fence, because he was throwing rocks (when all you had to do was back away from the fence), you will be charged with murder.

Good luck with that tack.

17 posted on 08/18/2011 6:05:15 AM PDT by Ron H. (Loving my Deering Goodtime 2 Classic 5-stringer)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Polybius

David killed Goliath with a rock, it is a projectile weapon albiet a low velocity projectile weapon, but still a deadly weapon. Lethal force would and should be expected.


18 posted on 08/18/2011 6:06:41 AM PDT by sniper63 (Ever wonder why they call themselves Hamas, but don't eat pork?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Polybius

If I remember the original stories correctly the BP agent was trying to apprehend mexicains who were try to illegally enter the US, during that time a group of teenagers in Mexicao began throwing the rocks. IMHO the agent acted correctly in this case. He was performing his duties and was attacked.


19 posted on 08/18/2011 6:17:10 AM PDT by Ratman83
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: calex59
Your question is worded wrong. It should read, "Every male on this thread that never threw rocks at a law enforcement officer with the intent to do bodily harm raise your hand".

See Post 14.

The Police Policy Studies Council: ..... The decision to shoot someone is the most serious choice a police officer can make. Officers throughout the state are instructed that it is a last resort to be used only in the direst of circumstances. .... the decision to use deadly force must generally be made only to save an officer or someone else from great bodily injury or death. .... And an officer cannot simply claim he feared injury or death. The circumstances of the incident must be sufficient to excite the fears of a "reasonable" person under similar circumstances.

In this case the teenager was on Mexican soil and all that agent had to do is to retreat beyond the range of a 15 year old's arm.

" .... last resort to be used only in the direst of circumstances?"

Sorry, it won't fly.

As the article says, Mexico may charge him with murder and ask for extradition. Given the U.S. Court's ruling that the 15 year old died on Mexican soil, the Obama Administration may very well agree to such an extradition.

As thing stand right now, the Border agent may still be criminally charged by the U.S. The FBI is still investigating.

August 17, 2011 : The FBI says this case is currently pending and it is still under investigation.

20 posted on 08/18/2011 6:25:50 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
I still think the agent was in the right and should have shot. It is just too bad he didn't take out a few more of the little Bas****s while he was at it. If our government let's him be extradited for murder they are criminally negligent.

The number of incidents of the Mexican army becoming "lost" lately and crossing the border are inexcusable and should be met with armed force, including the frickin' helo that became "lost" and landed on American soil. The pilot and crew should have been sent back to Mexico sans helicopter.

Americans in most states don't have to retreat when under attack, why should our border patrol? Not shooting back simply empowers the little murderers to keep throwing rocks and later graduating to something even more lethal.

21 posted on 08/18/2011 6:47:34 AM PDT by calex59
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

A rock thrown from a height by a stalwart young teenager can indeed be a lethal weapon. Armchair second guessers can speculate that the officer could have chosen a different option. But the fact remains that he was acting in self defense. A rare good judicial decision.
22 posted on 08/18/2011 6:52:14 AM PDT by Godwin1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: sniper63

Was Goliath killed by the rock or David removing his head with the giants sword sword?


23 posted on 08/18/2011 6:52:37 AM PDT by the_daug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: sniper63
David killed Goliath with a rock, it is a projectile weapon albiet a low velocity projectile weapon, but still a deadly weapon. Lethal force would and should be expected.

David was not a "thrower", he was a "slinger".

For that era, a slinger's projectile was as "high velocity" as things got in warfare. The velocity that a slinger could achieve was so high that Roman writers said that slingers could pierce armor.

As far as range is concerned, the world distance record for slinging an 8 ounce stone is 375 yards.

Slingers were so deadly that the ancient armies valued them as highly as archers.

Let's just say that a 15 year old's arm is not in the same league.

The circumstances do not meet Police guidelines for use of deadly force.

The Police Policy Studies Council: ..... The decision to shoot someone is the most serious choice a police officer can make. Officers throughout the state are instructed that it is a last resort to be used only in the direst of circumstances. .... the decision to use deadly force must generally be made only to save an officer or someone else from great bodily injury or death. .... And an officer cannot simply claim he feared injury or death. The circumstances of the incident must be sufficient to excite the fears of a "reasonable" person under similar circumstances.

In this case, with the teenager on Mexican soil, all that agent had to do is to retreat beyond the range of a 15 year old's arm.

As I posted, the agent was not cleared and the case has been taken over by the FBI. Mexico may charge murder and request extradition. The fact that a U.S. Court has ruled that the 15 year old died on Mexican soil raises the possibility that it will progress to that.

24 posted on 08/18/2011 7:04:13 AM PDT by Polybius (Defeating Obama is Priority Number One)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Polybius

How about we go out into a field. I’ll throw rocks at your head and we’ll see what happens. Check my record and you will see that I’m not the biggest fan of LEOs, but these kids asked for it. By the way, retreating is what they wanted him to do. The kids were supporting illegal boarder crossing.
You have heard of stoning people to death?


25 posted on 08/18/2011 8:07:33 AM PDT by LevinFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
Since when did "throwing rocks" become a death penalty offense?

It should be for every rock thrown at our Border Control Agents by illegals.

Since it's hard to tell the illegals from the legals, kill 'em all.

Now go and crawl back under your rock of willful ignorance.

26 posted on 08/18/2011 8:22:47 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (If we were civilized we would throw Liberals off the nearest cliffs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
on another side of an impassable fence,

Only if that was true........

27 posted on 08/18/2011 8:32:43 AM PDT by Osage Orange (HE HATE ME)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
Since when did "throwing rocks" become a death penalty offense?

How about when the rock thrower is throwing rocks at you with the obvious intent of causing bodily harm...

Every male on this thread that never threw rocks as a boy, raise your hand.

I have thrown thousands of rocks as a kid...But never once did I throw one at an officer of the law, or anyone carrying a weapon that can reach out and touch me...

Or are you suggesting they were just throwing rocks at an empty Tequila bottle they just threw on the ground???

28 posted on 08/18/2011 8:37:47 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Polybius
If you were a Police officer, Ernie, and you claimed that you killed a 15 year old with a head shot, on another side of an impassable fence, because he was throwing rocks (when all you had to do was back away from the fence), you will be charged with murder.

How did the Border Agent collar the one illegal if he couldn't get past the fence???

29 posted on 08/18/2011 8:41:12 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

Ping!


30 posted on 08/18/2011 9:29:39 AM PDT by HiJinx (Old Cold Warrior)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: politicalmerc
this was a TOTALLY irresponsible, overreaching act that should be punished. Please save me the constant illegal alien whine. These youths were not “illegal aliens” they were mischievous teens.

You are an idiot, and a disgrace to FR.

These were NOT "mischievous teens". This so-caled "boy" had been detained a dozen times in TX and CA and was a known drug and human smuggler by ICE and the DEA. And this is a standard tactic of throwing rocks at BP agents to distract them so others can cross nearby. An agent has been KILLED and many seriously injured by rocks. In June, a 35-year old Mexican was shot and killed by BP agent after hurling a log with nails and striking an agent in the forehead, nearly blinding him. So go elsewhere with you pathetic ignorance.

31 posted on 08/18/2011 9:41:19 AM PDT by montag813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Polybius

“...impassable fence...”

What friggin’ planet or dimension are living in? What an asshat you are. That is the most ridiculous and incredulous statement I have ever heard from a supposed rational FReeper.

FYI...I live in So. Cal. and can tell you that I have seen the “border fence” with my own eyes. It is more “passable” than the chainlink fence surrounding a school yard.

You’re an idiot.

Go pound sand, Jerk.


32 posted on 08/18/2011 6:35:06 PM PDT by Ernie Kaputnik ((It's a mad, mad, mad world.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Polybius

“You are wrong.”

Uh, no. I am not wrong.

But as a matter of fact, you are a complete and total idiot.

What a maroon!


33 posted on 08/18/2011 6:37:27 PM PDT by Ernie Kaputnik ((It's a mad, mad, mad world.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: montag813
Montag813, those who have little ability to make their point usually call names. The BP guard had absolutely no right to use lethal force. I don't give a crap if you want to say I'm not conservative enough for you or FR.

An agent has been KILLED and many seriously injured by rocks.

Really? or is that something you just made up on the spot? Even so, it isn't a legal justification to FIRE YOUR WEAPON ACROSS THE BOARDER you moron! I so rarely get angry enough with knee-jerk BS to call names but I'm so sick and tired of people on here like you who are a pathetic as liberals when it comes to tolerating someone else's opinion. You think,if I don't think like YOU then I'm a disgrace to FR? Whatever!

The teens were running up and "TOUCHING" the fence. That isn't a capital crime regardless of what this 15 year old had done before. (I also have no idea where you got your information about this kids record). Throwing rocks is also not a reason to kill someone. I'm amazed I even have to make an argument that obvious.

34 posted on 08/19/2011 2:49:35 AM PDT by politicalmerc (The whole earth may move, but God's throne is never shaken. I think I'll stand by Him..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson