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Euro bail-out in doubt as "hysteria" sweeps Germany
The Telegraph ^ | 8/28/2011 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 08/28/2011 1:56:00 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

German Chancellor Angela Merkel no longer has enough coalition votes in the Bundestag to secure backing for Europe's revamped rescue machinery, threatening a consitutional crisis in Germany and a fresh eruption of the euro debt saga.

Mrs Merkel has cancelled a high-profile trip to Russia on September 7, the crucial day when the package goes to the Bundestag and the country's constitutional court rules on the legality of the EU's bail-out machinery.

If the court rules that the €440bn rescue fund (EFSF) breaches Treaty law or undermines German fiscal sovereignty, it risks setting off an instant brushfire across monetary union.

The seething discontent in Germany over Europe's debt crisis has spread to all the key institutions of the state. "Hysteria is sweeping Germany " said Klaus Regling, the EFSF's director.

German media reported that the latest tally of votes in the Bundestag shows that 23 members from Mrs Merkel's own coalition plan to vote against the package, including twelve of the 44 members of Bavaria's Social Christians (CSU). This may force the Chancellor to rely on opposition votes, risking a government collapse.

Christian Wulff, Germany's president, stunned the country last week by accusing the European Central Bank of going "far beyond its mandate" with mass purchases of Spanish and Italian debt, and warning that the Europe's headlong rush towards fiscal union stikes at the "very core" of democracy. "Decisions have to be made in parliament in a liberal democracy. That is where legitimacy lies," he said.

A day earlier the Bundesbank had fired its own volley, condemning the ECB's bond purchases and warning the EU is drifting towards debt union without "democratic legitimacy" or treaty backing.

Joahannes Singhammer, leader of the CSU's Bundestag group, accused the ECB of acting "dangerously" by jumping the gun before

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bailout; debtcrisis; ecb; efsf; eu; eubailout; euro; eurobailout; germany; italy; merkel; spain

1 posted on 08/28/2011 1:56:02 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman
"Hysteria is sweeping Germany " = German citizen no to bailouts.

Shocking.

2 posted on 08/28/2011 1:57:19 PM PDT by Palter (Celebrate diversity .22, .223, .25, 9mm, .32 .357, 10mm, .44, .45, .500)
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To: bruinbirdman

House of Cards

ashes, ashes....


3 posted on 08/28/2011 1:58:50 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: bruinbirdman

Why don’t the German taxpayers just shut up and carry the load of the deadbeats, just like we do in America?


4 posted on 08/28/2011 1:59:12 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I carrying this lantern? you ask. I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Palter

The elites do not like representative democracy much, which is why the EUSSR isn’t one.


5 posted on 08/28/2011 1:59:52 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: Palter

Sounds like Germany is full of those evil, racist Tea Party members.


6 posted on 08/28/2011 2:01:42 PM PDT by MarkeyD (Obama is a victim of Affirmative Action)
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To: Leaning Right

The Krauts are saying to themselves, “Why should we bail out those deadbeats?” Yeah, why should they? And why should WE?


7 posted on 08/28/2011 2:01:42 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: Leaning Right
>"Why don’t the German taxpayers just shut up and carry the load of the deadbeats"

They tried that after WW I, the Treaty of Versailles, and it didn't go over too well.

8 posted on 08/28/2011 2:03:03 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
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To: bruinbirdman

Maybe Pooty-poot can bail them out to get East Germany back. That’d be funny.


9 posted on 08/28/2011 2:03:18 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: rawcatslyentist

Didn’t the Germans elect some kind of National Socialist, like 0bama, to sort their problems out?


10 posted on 08/28/2011 2:05:50 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: bruinbirdman
The seething discontent in Germany over Europe's debt crisis has spread to all the key institutions of the state.

I can't say that I blame them.

11 posted on 08/28/2011 2:06:14 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: bruinbirdman

Maybe we should have a debt union with Germany ourselves?


12 posted on 08/28/2011 2:06:48 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: bruinbirdman

Apologies- I didn’t see your earliest post.


13 posted on 08/28/2011 2:07:31 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: bruinbirdman

That point in Socialism that Margaret Thatcher pointed out, where you run out of other people’s money, seems to have been reached in Europe.


14 posted on 08/28/2011 2:11:32 PM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: Paladin2
First things first. They tanked the economy, then they elected their messiah, who actually fixed their economy.

Jug ears has it bass ackwards as usual.

15 posted on 08/28/2011 2:24:42 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (It is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; ~Vattel's Law of Nations)
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To: RoadTest; kabar

“That point in Socialism that Margaret Thatcher pointed out, where you run out of other people’s money, seems to have been reached in Europe.”

And we are within a short distance of having reached it here. The time will come when normal standards of bond pricing will be applied to Treasuries. At that point rates for 10-year Treasuries, for example, will probably hit 7% to 8% at least.

It will be interesting to see how the political class and other taxeaters respond to a situation in which debt service starts moving toward $1 trillion/year and states and municipalities are forced out of the bond market because the rates are prohibitive..

By raising the debt ceiling, Boehner and the weak, Bush-like Rs may have fumbled away the last chance to force the government to become fiscally responsible, thereby giving us a chance to avoid a monstrous financial and social calamity. We shall see...


16 posted on 08/28/2011 2:29:28 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: rawcatslyentist
then they elected their messiah, who actually fixed their economy

That myth ranks right up there with "FDR got us out of the Depression." Hitler put everyone to work (much like FDR), but he consumed every pfennig of capital in the country to do it.

His policies ate the guts out of the Germans' wealth to keep his war machine going. That was not economic growth, it was pure Keynesianism (who rather admired Hitler) on steroids.

17 posted on 08/28/2011 2:31:37 PM PDT by BfloGuy (In old fashioned language, Keynes proposed cheating the workers.)
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To: bruinbirdman

So they’ll try to get US taxpayers to bail out the ECB. And has any Pubbie presidential candidate taken a stand on any future bailout of the ECB? Inquiring minds want to know....


18 posted on 08/28/2011 2:33:37 PM PDT by mewzilla (Forget a third party. We need a second one.)
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To: mewzilla

Gold Man Sacks seems to p0wn the gov’t.


19 posted on 08/28/2011 2:44:03 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: bruinbirdman
Et tu, Commodities? (The Collapse Of The Commodities Bubble)
20 posted on 08/28/2011 2:51:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: Paladin2
Gold Man Sacks seems to p0wn the gov’t.

Oh, yes, they have for some time. They got the govt. to repeal the Glass-Steagall Act, and then it was Party Time.....

21 posted on 08/28/2011 2:53:33 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: expatpat

Pumping money in to a society will not change their behavior for the better. A friend of mine has a daughter who is working for an American company who has a subsidiary in Spain and their biggest problem is finding people who are willing to work. And I do believe and can understand why any straight thinking German would be hostile to give them any money as in the end it would not make any lazy bum more industrious and before long it would be back to square one.


22 posted on 08/28/2011 3:05:41 PM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: BfloGuy

True that. Germany was broke and needed other sources of wealth, which they obtained through the “donations” from their Euro neighbors. The Nazis were collecting loot any way they could, including stockpiling the gold teeth of their victims.


23 posted on 08/28/2011 3:21:40 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: Palter
"Hysteria is sweeping Germany " = German citizen no to bailouts.

The German people understand that this bailout will not solve anything, just defer the final crash for a little while, at enormous cost. They might as well let it happen now.

24 posted on 08/28/2011 3:28:03 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: PapaBear3625

If I may, I’ll rephrase your comments..the Germans know that Greece is toasr, kaput, finshed..and they are unwilling to throw good German $$ after bad....the piper must be paid now...


25 posted on 08/28/2011 3:34:07 PM PDT by ken5050 (Should Christie RUN in 2012? NO!!! But he should WALK three miles every day!)
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To: BfloGuy

In fact, that’s why Hitler had to go to war when he did, Germany was on the verge of bankruptcy, war couldn’t wait.


26 posted on 08/28/2011 3:36:14 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ken5050

Not just Greece — Portugal, Spain, Italy, the list goes on. The EU is done. It never was going to work. The only question now is how much of the wealth of the fiscally-responsible must be pissed away to prop up the EU for a little while longer.


27 posted on 08/28/2011 3:37:26 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (When you've only heard lies your entire life, the truth sounds insane.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks bruinbirdman.
...the latest tally of votes in the Bundestag shows that 23 members from Mrs Merkel's own coalition plan to vote against the package, including twelve of the 44 members of Bavaria's Social Christians (CSU). This may force the Chancellor to rely on opposition votes, risking a government collapse.

28 posted on 08/28/2011 4:28:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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a little more at the locked topic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2770109/posts


29 posted on 08/28/2011 4:28:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Gold Price dot org


Gold Price dot org

30 posted on 08/28/2011 4:29:27 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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http://www.galmarley.com/framesets/fs_commodity_essentials_faqs.htm

Gold : prices, facts, figures & research

Commodity Numbers FAQs

How much gold is there?

In the world there are currently somewhere between 120,000 and 140,000 tonnes of gold ‘above ground’. To visualise this imagine a single solid gold cube with edges of about 19 metres (about three metres short of the length of a tennis court). That’s all that has ever been produced.

Divided amongst the population of the world there are about 23 grams per person, about 1.2 cubic centimetres each. This equates to about $250 - $350 worth per person on Earth, depending on the current price.


31 posted on 08/28/2011 4:29:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: expatpat
List of Goldman Sacks Ties to Obama Administration
32 posted on 08/28/2011 10:22:09 PM PDT by Kozak ("It's not an Election it's a Restraining Order" .....PJ O'Rourke)
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