Posted on 09/04/2011 12:56:32 PM PDT by Clairity
Iniatially, it was the economy and the health care issues, sadly, though, the majority of the talk show hosts have libertarian leanings more than Conservative leanings.
Cheers to your comment. I am always encouraged by people making the distinction between libertarian ideas and the philosophy of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, which is the foundation of Conservative philosophy. There is no comparison in how it guides a person’s thinking compared to other inferior schemes. Much more reasoned approach than the emotional inanities of libertarianism or any number of other isms. Reaganism is of course a good modern example of Conservatism. But I’m sure you are fully versed, so have a nice day.. on the rest of this Communist holiday.
Maybe, but at least these liberals can only be accused of being too permissive. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone. Not the case with many “holier than thou” people who think that anyone who has a different opinion than they do is the enemy.
By the way, I do not support traitors or Code Pink (one in the same). Didn’t we just talk about painting people with the same brush?
That is a myth. The founders were closer to Libertarian ideas than Conservative ones. Libertarians are classical liberals, as the founders were. They were not conservatives. Labels have morphed, and the libertarian principles have been diluted and warped some over time but that is a fact.
I do not believe Big L libertarian's are classical liberals which I guess I would agree our Founding Father were (which is what is currently called Conservative philosophy). Our founding father's, for example, did not ascribe to isolation/non-interventionism or open borders.
As this could be a conversation, I welcome your input but it's a big topic and is hard to go through carefully with just a casual exchange.
Freegards
I am not sure sure that Conservative philosophy is classical liberalism. Just as Libertarians are judged by the views of Paul or Schiff, Conservatives have their own issues. I constantly read on this site how (if something happens that is “not fair”), there “oughta be a law.” Not exactly Classical Liberal thinking there. Many “conservatives” have also supported amnesty for illegals as well. I know there are also Libertarians who wrongly support amnesty too.
So, I guess the best way to tackle this issue is, what is modern conservatism? I also think that many Libertarians and Republicans are also “Progressives”, which we all know is not freedom based thought at all.
I am well aware of the thoughts of Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, and Madison as I have read the Federalist Papers many times. A civil society or a free market cannot exist without morality. An immoral populace is not capable of self government. The Founders knew this. They knew that our inalienable rights were derived from God. But to them it did not matter if that God were Jewish, Christian or whomever, the principle was the same.
I also think that modern libertarianism has its own identity issue as well. Just 20 years ago, its identity was much different. Like the other political parties in this country, it has moved leftward.
I am not an isolationist myself. But MANY on this board are. I read comments all the time about how free trade is gonna do us in... constantly. Yet, I don’t think that people realize that to eliminate trade would be to play right into the hands of the statists and the unions. Who stands to gain the most with a closed market? Unions for sure as they will be shielded from labor and price competition.
We know the Founder’s stance on free trade, but that does not stop me from reading how it should be ended on this board. I want to qualify free trade here. It does NOT mean crony capitalism and unfair practices.
We all know that Dumocrats want to have a huge federal government with federal laws designed to address their perceived “inequalities”. I see many Conservatives who advocate the same thing. Except the laws would be based on their ideology and preferences. This is the problem that I have.
In every election I vote straight GOP. This is because I am a pragmatist and would rather not waste my vote on a candidate who has no chance of winning. However, I have never gotten to vote for a candidate who has views who are more than 75% or so close to mine (I was not old enough to vote for Reagan).
And it's not Conservative thinking either. Simply compulsive thinking unrestrained by principal.
Many “conservatives” have also supported amnesty for illegals as well.
Then they are not Conservatives. Just because they are on this board means nothing.
I guess the best way to tackle this issue is, what is modern conservatism?
At the core of this conversation is God. Does a person believe in a personal God or an impersonal God..? That is, do they have an individually based ontology or do they have a socially derived ontology..? Social ontology is the root of all liberal/progressive/totalitarian thinking. I know it's a big topic and I don't know if I could parse it adequately as there are many ways to be misunderstood but it is clear that our Founding Father's conception of Liberty was based on the individual making their own peace with their own God. After all, that's why we came over here in the first place.
If a person looks at society through this lens, it is clear, most of our laws and concepts of government in our lives is terribly off track to what our founders conceived and put in place for us to prosper by. I do not believe a person needs to defer to libertarianism. Our Founding Father's had it right to start with.
I agree, they are not Conservatives. Just as those who believe in isolationism and are against free trade are not Libertarians.
I notice that you did not address the free trade issue. The founders of this country were not isolationists. I believe that is because many Conservatives do not believe in free trade. And for me that is a huge issue. That is why I do not defer to Conservatism, or at least some of what passes as Conservative thought.
In the end, I think we both are talking about the same thing; Freedom. Since we can agree on that, the rest of these issues are secondary and do not matter as much. If the worst disagreement that we can have is the difference between a small and a tiny government, all will be well!
Let Freedom Ring! God Bless America!!
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