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Obama Is Looking Like America's Job-Killer-in-Chief (by Peter Schiff, Forbes)
Forbes ^ | Sept. 2, 2011 | Peter Schiff

Posted on 09/04/2011 12:56:32 PM PDT by Clairity

Friday morning, many on Wall Street were stunned by the big fat zero put up by the August jobs report, the worst showing in 11 months. The data convinced many previously optimistic economists that the United States will slip back into recession.

As President Obama prepares to unveil a new plan for the Federal Government to create jobs, evidence is rapidly piling up on how his administration is actively destroying jobs with stunning efficiency. Recent examples of this trend are enough to make anyone with even a casual respect for America's former economic prowess hang their head in disgust.

So as we wait with eager anticipation as to what the president may reveal in his jobs speech next week, you can be sure that it's not going to help America regain its competitive edge. The sooner we regard the government as a job killer rather than a job creator, the sooner we can all get back to work.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: economy; elections; gibson; jobs; obama; peterschiff
Obama is "Job-Killer-in-Chief" -- very appropriate.
1 posted on 09/04/2011 12:56:34 PM PDT by Clairity
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To: Clairity

That is far kinder than what I’d call the marxist poser.


2 posted on 09/04/2011 12:59:18 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Obammy is little more than a quota boy with a teleprompter)
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To: Clairity
Clairity wrote:
Obama is "Job-Killer-in-Chief" -- very appropriate.
Yeah, that's a good description of Obama.

It's also a great search term. job killer in chief, especially if you want to read more comments about this piece.

3 posted on 09/04/2011 1:02:25 PM PDT by cc2k ( If having an "R" makes you conservative, does walking into a barn make you a horse's (_*_)?)
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To: Clairity

It only took him two and two-thirds years to figure that out.


4 posted on 09/04/2011 1:03:02 PM PDT by RoadTest (Organized religion is no substitute for the relationship the living God wants with you.)
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To: Clairity

Can’t say we didn’t tell everyone this was going to happen back in 2008. We had a mini family feud over his election, which is still simmering. Suckers.


5 posted on 09/04/2011 1:03:44 PM PDT by Protoss
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To: Joe Boucher

That is far kinder than what I’d call the marxist poser.


I call him an evil bastard quite often.

I don’t want the law at my door so I am nice in what I say.


6 posted on 09/04/2011 1:06:26 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Clairity
SEARCHING
7 posted on 09/04/2011 1:08:46 PM PDT by FrankR (What you resist...PERSISTS!)
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To: FrankR
LOL!

We have to help him. ;)


8 posted on 09/04/2011 1:13:21 PM PDT by Clairity ("The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected." -- VP Dick Cheney)
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To: Clairity
The absurdity of the current environment reached a peak when the DOJ, and agents from, get this, the U.S. Fish and Wild Life Service, raided the Nashville factory of the legendary Gibson Guitar company.

When I didn't think I could possibly be more disgusted by this administration, along comes the raids on Gibson.

9 posted on 09/04/2011 1:14:50 PM PDT by Drew68 (Perry/Rubio 2012)
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To: RoadTest

That ‘Hope & Change’ doesn’t seem to have the shine it once had . . . even among his loyal subjects!


10 posted on 09/04/2011 1:15:49 PM PDT by ArchAngel1983 (Arch Angel- on guard / The democrat party "Can Go Straight To Hell".)
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To: unkus

So I guess you wouldn’t call BHO ignorant, treacherous, vain, untrustworthy, pompous, boring, incompetent, feckless, arrogant, or an impostor, or a liar.


11 posted on 09/04/2011 1:24:06 PM PDT by pleikumud
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To: RoadTest

You mean Peter Schiff? He has been sounding the alarm about government spending and impending doom for quite some time. The “smart” folks on all the business shows used to snicker at him. Now they all want to interview him.

Bush and the Republicans don’t escape their culpability, either. Both parties have been on a spending and regulation spree that has brought us to this disaster. Ultimately, though, the American voters are to blame. They have believed all the grandiose promises and the hope of a free lunch. Now the party is over and only the mess remains.


12 posted on 09/04/2011 1:27:41 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: Clairity

13 posted on 09/04/2011 1:28:06 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Obama got mostly Ds and Fs all through college and law school. Keep saying it.....)
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To: Clairity

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2773243/posts


14 posted on 09/04/2011 1:28:12 PM PDT by upchuck (Rerun: Think you know hardship? Wait till the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency.)
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To: Clairity

“Job-Killer” always looks good on your resume < /sarc >

This is going to be the best hammer that the Republican nominee for President, regardless of whom that person may be, in driving home the vital need of voting the now failing obama regime out of office.

We have had our little social experiment, now let us get back to the serious business of revitalizing America.


15 posted on 09/04/2011 1:31:22 PM PDT by alloysteel (Are Democrats truly "better angels"? They are lousy stewards for America.)
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To: Pining_4_TX

U.S. Debt Held by Public Tops $10 TRILLION for 1st Time - Up 59 Percent Under Obama

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2773135/posts


16 posted on 09/04/2011 1:39:38 PM PDT by Clairity ("The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected." -- VP Dick Cheney)
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To: upchuck

Thanks — I always searched. I think it didn’t come up because of the dash between words vs. no dash. The FR search engine does have its glitches.


17 posted on 09/04/2011 1:41:57 PM PDT by Clairity ("The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected." -- VP Dick Cheney)
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To: Clairity
Wondering if this might more insidious than suspected.. Increased taxes and regulations have caused most large companies to ship jobs overseas. The few diehards,such as Gibson in Nashville, have to be harassed and told, “ If you ship your labor to overseas countries, your problems will go away.” If there are no jobs, everyone turns to the government for support in the form of work, welfare, etc. When the government controls, health care, the banks, the regulations that we need to work, all the jobs, the handouts, the health care, we will do as we are told like good servants..
18 posted on 09/04/2011 1:54:11 PM PDT by ArtDodger (Reread Animal Farm (with your kids))
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To: ArtDodger

“When the government controls, health care, the banks, the regulations that we need to work, all the jobs, the handouts, the health care, we will do as we are told like good servants..”

BINGO! You just figured out Obama’s REAL agenda.


19 posted on 09/04/2011 1:57:12 PM PDT by Clairity ("The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected." -- VP Dick Cheney)
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To: Clairity

When are the Republicans going to start saying the way to increase jobs is repeal ObamaCare?

It seems to me that linking ObamaCare with job losses would be a good thing. But then, the Republicans sometimes are not willing to do the right thing.


20 posted on 09/04/2011 2:00:08 PM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

Perry said that his first action will be to repeal Obamacare.


21 posted on 09/04/2011 2:02:39 PM PDT by Clairity ("The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected." -- VP Dick Cheney)
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To: Clairity

He is changing the U.S. into a Third World country, according to the plan of those who leveraged influence to get the Trojan Horse into the White House. That’s the change Marxists believe in.


22 posted on 09/04/2011 2:06:47 PM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now ( Is the Obama administration a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Marxist-Islamic-terrorist axis?.)
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To: Clairity
Is that a giant golf ball?

Zer0's likely focused like a laser on keeping grounds keepers employed.

23 posted on 09/04/2011 2:18:58 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Clairity

Peter Schiff is no economic genius, and I caught him and his election campaigners breaking election laws in 2010.


24 posted on 09/04/2011 2:24:29 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: RoadTest

Peter Schiff is a huge phony, he ran as Ron Paul’s economic advisor in 2008, ran for the CT Senate in 2010, he is a hug Libertarian, that means eh is supported by CODE PINK and the traitor ADAM KOKESH

We also caught him on video bragging all his investments are in overseas banks and companies and that he has ZERO money invested in America

talk about betting against your country!


25 posted on 09/04/2011 2:26:46 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: Clairity

It’s too bad Schiff is not Connecticut’s governor.


26 posted on 09/04/2011 2:28:04 PM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: RaceBannon

Good info. I hadn’t heard this.


27 posted on 09/04/2011 2:36:47 PM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: pleikumud

You forgot Wicked. But “Evil” covers him well.


28 posted on 09/04/2011 2:43:31 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Bean Counter

LOL!


29 posted on 09/04/2011 3:20:09 PM PDT by death2tyrants
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To: RaceBannon

I see comments on here alot painting Libertarians with the same “Paultard” brush. I would consider myself to be at least 50% Libertarian just for the simple fact that the GOP is a little too warm and fuzzy for me.

Paul does not speak for all Libertarians. I agree with most of his economic policies. But when it comes to foreign policy, he is crazier than a rat in a tin sh-t house! We can’t bury our heads in the sand and hope that the bad guys will leave us alone.

Just as not all Republicans have the same views, neither do all Libertarians. I am a Pro-Life, Hawkish, Libertarian. I believe in as much freedom as possible without anarchy! The smaller the government is, the better it is for all.


30 posted on 09/04/2011 3:26:43 PM PDT by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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To: cc2k

14,700,000 hits in .2 seconds at google. I just made it 14,700,001.


31 posted on 09/04/2011 4:08:17 PM PDT by printhead (Standard & Poor - Poor is the new standard.)
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To: BizBroker
Paul does not speak for all Libertarians. I agree with most of his economic policies. But when it comes to foreign policy, he is crazier than a rat in a tin sh-t house!

What you said.

32 posted on 09/04/2011 4:11:57 PM PDT by Marathoner (Government schools = Marxist indoctrination centers)
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To: BizBroker

yes, but the party you claim to be 50% in fovor of is a 100% supported by CODE PINK and 100% supports the traitor Adam kokesh


33 posted on 09/04/2011 4:45:37 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: Track9

A stopped clock is better than any democrat, but SCHIFF is just as liberal on all social policies as any deomcrat

Peter Schiff is NO ECONOMIC GENIUS as he claims, and many of his predictions are totally bogus!

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/peter-schiff-was-wrong.html ,
“ For one, Mike Shedlock of Mish’s Global Economic Trend Analysis gave an incredibly detailed review of Schiff’s track record in an article titled, “Peter Schiff was Wrong.” To get a little flavor of the piece, here is an excerpt:

12 Ways Schiff Was Wrong in 2008

•Wrong about hyperinflation
•Wrong about the dollar
•Wrong about commodities except for gold
•Wrong about foreign currencies except for the Yen
•Wrong about foreign equities
•Wrong in timing
•Wrong in risk management
•Wrong in buy and hold thesis
•Wrong on decoupling
•Wrong on China
•Wrong on US treasuries
•Wrong on interest rates, both foreign and domestic”


http://investingcaffeine.com/2009/09/07/the-emperor-schiff-has-no-clothes/


http://seekingalpha.com/article/106824-being-wrong-for-five-years-makes-peter-schiff-right-now

” Now, had you listened to Peter in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 or even 3/4 of 2007, you lost your shirt. Had you placed bets based on Schiff’s market calls, you lost everything you wagered.

The S&P (.INX) went from 1054 in May of 2002 (the date of the interview) to 1561 in Oct. 2007, a 48% gain and the Dow (.DJI) rose 40%.

Banking stocks, the primary victim of the housing bust, went up (JP Morgan (JPM) 36%, Bank of America (BAC) 41%, Wells Fargo (WFC) 39% , Wachovia (WB) 31% and American Express (AXP) 51%) during that time frame (dividends excluded which would dramatically add to results). “”


SCHIFF invests in America’s economic competitors ONLY
NOT A DIME in the USA
how is that smart??

ECON 101
When you invest in the firm that is the economic competitor to your own family, and your family does poorly, and their competitor does well, and you KEEP investing in your family’s competitor, YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR FAMILY OUT OF WORK!

Schiff doesn’t invest a SINGLE PENNY in AMERICA!!!

pro-immigration and said that there are too many jobs in the US we NEED to let in immigrants???

Peter Schiff admits on camera that he has ZERO money investigated in American corporations or industry. If Peter Schiff refuses to invest in American companies, how can Peter Schiff say he is helping Americans keep their jobs?

http://ameriborn.com/shifty/

This is SCHIFF in his own words!

PETER SCHIFF IS ACTIVELY INVESTING IN FOREIGN COMPETITOR NATIONS THAT ARE PUTTING AMERICANS OUT OF WORK!!!

Here is a link to his investment company and their business dealings from Google
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4RNTN_enUS381US381&q=Schiff+%2b+pacific


Schiff is pro-gay marriage, pro-drug legalization and against the war in Afghanistan

http://blogs.courant.com/rick_green/2009/10/peter-schiff-arrives-give-me-m.html


Why do the Ron Paul guys support gay marriage?
http://www.queerty.com/ron-paul-on-gay-marriage-20071210/


http://www.schiffforsenate.com/index.php?q=news/constitutional-candidates-congress

Schiff’s own website endorses Adam Kokesh


All the Schiff bots are supporting a PRO-CHOICE candidate, too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDttx64zk4I


SCHIFF himself admits he believes the Iraq War is a QUAGMIRE in 2009!!
http://www.freespeechmonster.com/?p=103

Schiff has said this many times
http://peterschiffsays.com/defense.htm

Aug 7, 2009, Iraq is a quagmire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9t741ewbGA

Schiff blamed Iraq on bankers? Not on Saddam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo81QDSuixk


What the Tea Parties are not telling you about Peter Schiff:

Libertarians need to infiltrate the GOP

VIDEO of Schiff saying just that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ncLTFoTFa8

http://belowthebeltway.com/2009/06/02/peter-schiff-libertarians-need-to-infliltrate-the-gop/
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=110955225375
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=19285
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message808505/pg1
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090707200009AAzSQfB


Peter Schiff admits on camera that he has ZERO money investigated in American corporations or industry. If Peter Schiff refuses to invest in American companies, how can Peter Schiff say he is helping Americans keep their jobs?

http://ameriborn.com/shifty/


Peter Schiff repeating talking points of the lunatic left, listen yourself. He says in 2009 that Iraq is a QUAGMIRE when we already won!! He blames the war on bankers and whoever, and not a word about blaming it on terrorists! listen yourself, Schiff repeats left wing talking points to his radio audience about the Iraq war!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo81QDSuixk


Peter Schiff has made open statements that are quite like the statements of the anti-war leftists, to include the OTHER Ron Paul endorsed candidates Rand Paul and Adam Kokesh

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=schiff+%2B+isolationist&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIC_enUS220US220&q=peter+schiff+isolationist


Peter Schiff is pro-choice on abortion

http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&newwindow=1&rlz=1T4GGIC_enUS220US220&q=Peter+schiff+%2B+abortion&aq=f&aqi=g-c1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=


SCHIFF’S OWN WEBSITE CONTAINS AN ENDORSEMENT FOR KOKESH WHERE KOKESH IS NAMED AS AN ANTI-WAR PROTESTER
http://schiffforsenate.com/index.php?q=news/constitutional-candidates-congress
Adam Kokesh
Adam Kokesh is best known as an Iraq War veteran who returned opposed to the war and was a keynote speaker at Ron Paul’s “Rally for the Republic” that competed with the Republican National Convention in the summer of 2008.


Peter Schiff is pro-choice on abortion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDttx64zk4I

with respect to his personal feelings, he would not make it illegal, women have a right to abort, he is against 3rd trimester,

BUT FIRST TRIMESTR OR SECOND ONE ITS OKAY

Hear it in his own words


http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&newwindow=1&rlz=1T4GGIC_enUS220US220&q=Peter+schiff+%2B+abortion&aq=f&aqi=g-c1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

pro-immigration and said that there are too many jobs in the US we NEED to let in immigrants???

Peter Schiff admits on camera that he has ZERO money investigated in American corporations or industry. If Peter Schiff refuses to invest in American companies, how can Peter Schiff say he is helping Americans keep their jobs?

http://ameriborn.com/shifty/

This is SCHIFF in his own words!


video of Peter Schiff saying that LIBERTARIANS must infiltrate the Republican Party
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ncLTFoTFa8&playnext_from=TL&videos=gKm7t4j9Wgc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ncLTFoTFa8

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1583738

This second link is the full 2 hours. You cant download it directly, I tried, but hey, you can record it! :)


Peter Schiff appears at a Rand Paul/Adam Kokesh/Peter Schiff fundraiser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYwb_P-ssK0

Rand Paul, Adam Kokesh, Peter Schiff, and others holding a fundraiser at Webster Hall in New York.

http://www.randpaul2010.com/2009/08/rand-paul-at-webster-hall/

http://www.wallstreetstocks.net/rand-paul-adam-kokesh-peter-schiff-fundraiser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYwb_P-ssK0&feature=player_embedded

http://www.randpaul2010.com
http://www.schiffforsenate.com
http://www.kokeshforcongress.com


Read it for yourself, folks, all three of these candidates are the type of people that this organization supports and even wants to send money to!

http://www.google.com/search?q=schiff+kokesh+site:http://www.stormfront.org&hl=en&lr=&filter=0

The RAND Paul Money Bomb! Help Elect Rand Paul to U.S.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=624677

Stormfront!!!!


Peter Schiff for Senate Video Blog July 14 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlXqlz31SXk


Ron Paul, Adam Kokesh at Freedom Fest in Las Vegas July 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9oiTQD7Cms
Schiff attended this same conference hosted by Ron Paul and is in this video in the early part


Rand Paul amp Adam Kokesh Take Over The Interwebs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE9gVeykPAU


GOE Site for Adam Kokesh
http://americanpatriotsagainstkokesh.ning.com/


Adam Kokesh for Congress
http://www.kokeshforcongress.com/posts/whisper-campaigns


Ron Paul Supports Adam Kokesh
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=20098


This Aint Hell..re Oathkeepers..Adam Kokesh.
Note the connection between Oathkeepers & Ron Paul.
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=14586


34 posted on 09/04/2011 4:47:13 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: RaceBannon
Big info dump. Thank you. I remember some of your input during the CT primaries but I admit, I was thinking, 'anything but Malloy' and didn't get too involved with details. I see you have dedicated much time. Maybe we know each other. I frequented the Big Y rallies in Tolland.

Freegards

35 posted on 09/04/2011 5:08:45 PM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: unkus

101st airbourne,
I don’t think you’re too worried about too much.
Good job and thanks


36 posted on 09/04/2011 5:15:40 PM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) Obammy is little more than a quota boy with a teleprompter)
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To: Joe Boucher

Thanks, J B. Same thanks to you.


37 posted on 09/04/2011 5:25:54 PM PDT by unkus
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To: Track9

I used to lead the crowds at the tea party rallies in Hartford, I quit because of the Schiff/Adam Kokesh connections and theTea Parties kept their RON PAUL conenctions, I knew I had to leave, I wanted no part in that


38 posted on 09/04/2011 6:55:20 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...
Friday morning, many on Wall Street were stunned by the big fat zero put up by the August jobs report, the worst showing in 11 months. The data convinced many previously optimistic economists that the United States will slip back into recession.
Thanks Clairity.
39 posted on 09/04/2011 7:16:19 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: RaceBannon

I find the majority of CT Tea Partiers have been educated almost entirely by watching Glenn Beck. It’s good they are involved, but it creates some limited perspective and I never got the sense most really understood why they were there apart from the emotional libertarian issues.. which are readily understood by anyone weary of authority.


40 posted on 09/05/2011 4:42:38 AM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: Track9

Iniatially, it was the economy and the health care issues, sadly, though, the majority of the talk show hosts have libertarian leanings more than Conservative leanings.


41 posted on 09/05/2011 6:42:15 AM PDT by RaceBannon (Ron Paul is to the Constitution what Fred Phelps is to the Bible.)
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To: RaceBannon

Cheers to your comment. I am always encouraged by people making the distinction between libertarian ideas and the philosophy of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, which is the foundation of Conservative philosophy. There is no comparison in how it guides a person’s thinking compared to other inferior schemes. Much more reasoned approach than the emotional inanities of libertarianism or any number of other isms. Reaganism is of course a good modern example of Conservatism. But I’m sure you are fully versed, so have a nice day.. on the rest of this Communist holiday.


42 posted on 09/05/2011 12:12:28 PM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: RaceBannon

Maybe, but at least these liberals can only be accused of being too permissive. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone. Not the case with many “holier than thou” people who think that anyone who has a different opinion than they do is the enemy.

By the way, I do not support traitors or Code Pink (one in the same). Didn’t we just talk about painting people with the same brush?


43 posted on 09/05/2011 2:52:18 PM PDT by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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To: Track9

That is a myth. The founders were closer to Libertarian ideas than Conservative ones. Libertarians are classical liberals, as the founders were. They were not conservatives. Labels have morphed, and the libertarian principles have been diluted and warped some over time but that is a fact.


44 posted on 09/05/2011 2:56:33 PM PDT by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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To: BizBroker
If you care to, I would be happy to read your thoughts on Adams or Jefferson or Madison's conception of Natural Law, how it fit in with their idea of a Civil Society, why they believed a Federal Republic was necessary and any of the various ideas which constrained their thinking (rules they thought were essential to conserve in order to maintain a free and prosperous society).

I do not believe Big L libertarian's are classical liberals which I guess I would agree our Founding Father were (which is what is currently called Conservative philosophy). Our founding father's, for example, did not ascribe to isolation/non-interventionism or open borders.

As this could be a conversation, I welcome your input but it's a big topic and is hard to go through carefully with just a casual exchange.

Freegards

45 posted on 09/05/2011 3:39:41 PM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: Track9

I am not sure sure that Conservative philosophy is classical liberalism. Just as Libertarians are judged by the views of Paul or Schiff, Conservatives have their own issues. I constantly read on this site how (if something happens that is “not fair”), there “oughta be a law.” Not exactly Classical Liberal thinking there. Many “conservatives” have also supported amnesty for illegals as well. I know there are also Libertarians who wrongly support amnesty too.

So, I guess the best way to tackle this issue is, what is modern conservatism? I also think that many Libertarians and Republicans are also “Progressives”, which we all know is not freedom based thought at all.

I am well aware of the thoughts of Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, and Madison as I have read the Federalist Papers many times. A civil society or a free market cannot exist without morality. An immoral populace is not capable of self government. The Founders knew this. They knew that our inalienable rights were derived from God. But to them it did not matter if that God were Jewish, Christian or whomever, the principle was the same.

I also think that modern libertarianism has its own identity issue as well. Just 20 years ago, its identity was much different. Like the other political parties in this country, it has moved leftward.

I am not an isolationist myself. But MANY on this board are. I read comments all the time about how free trade is gonna do us in... constantly. Yet, I don’t think that people realize that to eliminate trade would be to play right into the hands of the statists and the unions. Who stands to gain the most with a closed market? Unions for sure as they will be shielded from labor and price competition.

We know the Founder’s stance on free trade, but that does not stop me from reading how it should be ended on this board. I want to qualify free trade here. It does NOT mean crony capitalism and unfair practices.

We all know that Dumocrats want to have a huge federal government with federal laws designed to address their perceived “inequalities”. I see many Conservatives who advocate the same thing. Except the laws would be based on their ideology and preferences. This is the problem that I have.

In every election I vote straight GOP. This is because I am a pragmatist and would rather not waste my vote on a candidate who has no chance of winning. However, I have never gotten to vote for a candidate who has views who are more than 75% or so close to mine (I was not old enough to vote for Reagan).


46 posted on 09/05/2011 8:39:14 PM PDT by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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To: BizBroker
I constantly read on this site how (if something happens that is “not fair”), there “oughta be a law.” Not exactly Classical Liberal thinking there.

And it's not Conservative thinking either. Simply compulsive thinking unrestrained by principal.

Many “conservatives” have also supported amnesty for illegals as well.

Then they are not Conservatives. Just because they are on this board means nothing.

I guess the best way to tackle this issue is, what is modern conservatism?

At the core of this conversation is God. Does a person believe in a personal God or an impersonal God..? That is, do they have an individually based ontology or do they have a socially derived ontology..? Social ontology is the root of all liberal/progressive/totalitarian thinking. I know it's a big topic and I don't know if I could parse it adequately as there are many ways to be misunderstood but it is clear that our Founding Father's conception of Liberty was based on the individual making their own peace with their own God. After all, that's why we came over here in the first place.

If a person looks at society through this lens, it is clear, most of our laws and concepts of government in our lives is terribly off track to what our founders conceived and put in place for us to prosper by. I do not believe a person needs to defer to libertarianism. Our Founding Father's had it right to start with.

47 posted on 09/06/2011 6:50:14 AM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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To: Track9

I agree, they are not Conservatives. Just as those who believe in isolationism and are against free trade are not Libertarians.

I notice that you did not address the free trade issue. The founders of this country were not isolationists. I believe that is because many Conservatives do not believe in free trade. And for me that is a huge issue. That is why I do not defer to Conservatism, or at least some of what passes as Conservative thought.

In the end, I think we both are talking about the same thing; Freedom. Since we can agree on that, the rest of these issues are secondary and do not matter as much. If the worst disagreement that we can have is the difference between a small and a tiny government, all will be well!


48 posted on 09/07/2011 1:01:45 AM PDT by BizBroker (Democrats- Don't want 'em, Don't need 'em, Can't use 'em, Couldn't afford 'em if I did!)
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To: BizBroker

Let Freedom Ring! God Bless America!!


49 posted on 09/07/2011 6:27:11 PM PDT by Track9 (Make War!!)
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