Throwing Mud Follow-up Letter (Concerning Global Warming)

Cavalier Daily (University of Virginia Daily) ^ | Sept 4, 2011 | Sean

[ml/nj]

I shared an apartment last year with an Enviro Science undergrad, and I was friendly with an ES grad student also. One night down in a corner bar, she introduced me to 7 of her her ES grad school colleagues, telling them I was a “skeptic,” and saying “get him.” They were a friendly bunch at first, so I was up for a little beer swilling debate.

I began by asking them why we had a global warming the first half of the 19th. Century, and to answer me without pulling out their iPhones. (ever wonder why people who think we’re using too much energy all have iPhones??) Five of the seven of them – all the guys – said that the earth did NOT get warmer 1800-1850. (buzzer sounds) The two gals agreed with me that it did. One of them said she did not know why, and the other said that it was due to “a volcanic eruption in Indonesia.”

[ml/nj]

The original Throwing Mud article appeared a week ago on August 30. If you scroll backwards at the link I've given you will find it. On your way you might see that the original comment to this article was posted by moi and it got some of the Wahoos involved in the controversy there somewhat upset. "Sean" was not one of those!

ML/NJ

[Texas Fossil]

Here is the actual article and it is the usual nutty defense of the AGW crowd. It is a shame that the university supports the AGW garbage, but it is all about research money.

Throwing mud

By Amato Evan and William Keene, Guest Viewpoint on August 30, 2011

LAST FRIDAY, The Cavalier Daily published an article (ATI obtains Mann’s research, Aug. 26) stating that the University had, in accordance with a Freedom of Information Act request, submitted to the American Tradition Institute a large number of emails and other documents from former Environmental Sciences Prof. Michael Mann. There is a fundamentally important backdrop to this story, however, that should have been addressed by the editorial staff and mentioned in the article.

While a professor at the University, Prof. Mann published a climate reconstruction based on various proxies that revealed an alarming and unprecedented rise in global temperature following the start of the Industrial Revolution. His so-called hockey stick graph provided a visceral piece of evidence supporting the hypothesis that emissions of greenhouse gases from fossil-fuel combustion and other human activities are warming our planet. Subsequent investigations based on completely independent data have yielded climate reconstructions that are consistent with the results of Prof. Mann’s pioneering research. This mounting body of evidence coupled with computer simulations of earth’s future climate demonstrate with a high degree of confidence that anthropogenic global warming is occurring.

For various reasons, ideologically conservative and well-funded groups such as ATI are dedicated to preventing societal efforts to slow climate change. Since there are currently no credible scientific arguments demonstrating that human activity is not warming the planet, one of their primary tactics is to attack scientists who conduct such research as part of a larger effort to confuse the public and corrupt the legislative process.

For example, in the “climate-gate” scandal, a handful of sentences in hacked emails from Prof. Mann were taken out of context to imply that he had falsified research results. Such groups widely touted this calculated misrepresentation as their “a-ha” moment. Much to their dismay, however, subsequent independent investigations by Penn State University, the National Science Foundation and the National Academy of Sciences cleared Prof. Mann of any wrongdoing.

We suggest that The Cavalier Daily stand up and call a spade a spade. This FOIA request by ATI is part of an ongoing and well-orchestrated attempt to disparage climate researchers including Prof. Mann and to discredit the very large body of scientific evidence showing that human activities are warming our planet. The socieoeconomic and geopolicital implications for future generations are profound.

Amato Evan is an assistant professor in the Department of Environmental Sciences. William Keene is a research professor in the Department of Environmental Sciences.

[The Working Man]

My Symantic/Norton 360 went berserk when I followed your link saying it was a known Malicious software site.

Just letting you know.

[CIB-173RDABN]

I do not disagree that the climate changes. It may very well be getting warmer, or it may be getting cooler. The disagreement is I do not believe it is man made.

My proof is simple. At one time half the world was covered by glaciers, now they are almost all gone. So the world must have been cooler at one point in time, and then got warmer. In fact, the geological records indicate this has happened several times over the earth’s long history. If it occurred in the past before man, why blame man today?

And we get to the whole point of the green movement, it is a way to control us. Why they want to control us, I am not sure but that is the only point to the entire environmental movement (not that everyone involved understands this, there are many useful idiots that really believe that man can change climate, but for those at top, they know.)

[Titus-Maximus]

These academics should be embracing full disclosure, but Mann cannot, because when he’s not padding the data to get to the “right result”, he’s making up tortured analyses that doesn’t convince anyone.

In their infamous emails they said they had to get rid of the “Middle Ages Warming Period” because it was destroying their credibility. They have constructed a scientific case that that now admits there was a Middle Ages warming period but it was “regionalized” and not global - that other parts of the planet were degrees colder so on average it was a ‘wash’. More like Hogwash.

The scientists have yet to be born, the engineers yet to be thought of, the software yet to be written, the satellite sensors yet to be designed, the models yet to be dreamed that could even attempt to predict climate on an interplanetary scale – which Mann claims he has done with a few excel spread sheets and some manufactured data from 9 dead trees. They are so far ahead of their skis on this it is laughable, and a little amazing that other scientists are too cowardly to confront this nonsense. They have no idea where the climate is going, except that it will change – because it has always changed.

They treat something that is highly dubious as gospel truth and then persecute viciously those who have the audacity to challenge it. It is more a Soviet model of personal attack, arrest and exile for those not believing in the Communist ideal. If Global Warming was hard provable science, the berserk personal attacks on the opposition would not be necessary. Show the irrefutable data and let the other side buy drinks at the bar. However, that is not the case because they are stuck in the rabbit hole and they have made claims they simply cannot prove and their evidence, as collected, really doesn’t support.

At one time the planet was a swamp – and dinosaurs walked about in the warm air, but was that from too much “CO2” from coal plants?

It is an excuse for more government control over capital. What the Marxists could not do with the Gulag, they can accomplish with bogus science.

[ml/nj]

My Symantic/Norton 360 went berserk when I followed your link saying it was a known Malicious software site.

I've been visiting the Cavalier Daily site for years without a problem. Maybe Symantic/Norton 360 is the one with the problem? You know if they didn't scare some people half to death they wouldn't have any business.

ML/NJ

[ml/nj]

My proof is simple. At one time half the world was covered by glaciers

And your proof about the glaciers is?

Are you aware that when all this ice supposedly covered the planet, it supposedly missed Siberia? When contradictions exist, examine your premises.

ML/NJ

[norwaypinesavage]

From the article: "Prof. Mann published a climate reconstruction based on various proxies that revealed an alarming and unprecedented rise in global temperature following the start of the Industrial Revolution. His so-called hockey stick graph provided a visceral piece of evidence supporting the hypothesis that emissions of greenhouse gases from fossil-fuel combustion and other human activities are warming our planet. Subsequent investigations based on completely independent data have yielded climate reconstructions that are consistent with the results of Prof. Mann’s pioneering research."

Anyone who has made it through grade school knows there has been a "Medieval Warm Period", and a "Little Ice Age". Just two examples demonstrate this: Viking vineyards in Greenland in areas now covered by glaciers, and Heidi skating on frozen Amsterdam canals while Washington's army froze in Valley Forge. Yet Mann's "Hockey Stick" has neither of these climate changes. That is a simple PROOF that Mann is wrong. Anyone who argues that Mann is correct simply isn't as knowledgeable as a fifth grader. It is usually best to not argue with fools since you are usually dragged to their level of discourse.

[afraidfortherepublic]

You know if they didn't scare some people half to death they wouldn't have any business.

LOLOLOLOL! My husband has always claimed that the people who write the viruses and the same people wh sell the anti-virus software (or are employed by them).

[aruanan]

Subsequent investigations based on completely independent data have yielded climate reconstructions that are consistent with the results of Prof. Mann’s pioneering research.

They've actually shown his "pioneering research" to be a crock. Other research has shown that you can plug anything into Mann's program and get a hockey stick graph.

[The Working Man]

You’re probably right. But on the other hand it’s the first time in years I’ve seen a message like that from Norton.

I’m just letting you know what came up. And it’s no disrespect to you or the article. It looks like an interesting one.

[magslinger]

Be careful, you are frightening these poor people. If they had to get a grant to study how the earth always has and always will go through periods of warming and cooling that man can't affect one way or another they might have to learn new job skills like how to flip a burger or deliver newspapers EVERY DAY.

In essence, you are turning the table on these fearmongers.

[TStro]

Areas of Siberia were subject to glaciation, while some were free of glaciation. Just like with North America, where much of Alaska remained free of glaciers, due to a lack of precipitation, where Canada and the northern US (as far south as Kansas) had glaciers up to 4 kilometers thick. But areas of Siberia did have extreme ice cover.

[kennyboy509]

What is your source of info concering siberia?

[TStro]

I won’t use Norton. It came pre-loaded on a new work computer years back. When I tried to access the internet, it blocked access. When I called their tech support, I was told I would have to pay for the product to get internet access. Guess they thought I was an novice computer user. I told the guy what they could do with their product and removed it from my computer. I use about 16 computers in my business, and the first thing I do when I buy a new one (bought 2 last Friday) is look for anything Norton and remove it. It is a virus as far as I’m concerned.

[ml/nj]

What is your source of info concering siberia?

Velikovksy in Earth in Upheaval. Velikovksy quotes James Dana who Velikovsky refers to as the leading American geologist of the last (i.e. 19th) century, "It is a remarkable fact that no ice mass covered the low lands of northern Siberia," from Dana's Manual of Geology (4th ed), p. 977. (Just as remarkably this book is still available in several formats, I see.)

ML/NJ

[facedown]

Since there are currently no credible scientific arguments demonstrating that human activity is not warming the planet,...

Jeez, a "scientist" wrote this?

[Texas Fossil]

Jeez, a "scientist" wrote this?

Jeez, a "scientist" "college student" wrote this?

Go to:

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/

find the search block at the bottom right of the page at the "The Cavalier Daily Job Board", and search for each of the authors names. You will see what appears to be the job searches they have made. hee hee hee

[CIB-173RDABN]

Are you saying glaciers did not exist?

I do not believe in man made global warming and you do not believe glaciers covered part of the world. One of us is wrong.

There is no point of discussing this with you.

Have a fun day in your world, I think I would rather live in mine.

[ml/nj]

Are you saying glaciers did not exist?

Did I say that? Really? Why do you ask such a STUPID question? I can go see glaciers all over the place. Glaciers are why icebergs exist. No I did not say glaciers do not exist.

What I did say is that I have my doubts about the conventional wisdom about so-called ice ages and flowing ice covering large parts of the planet. Do you think the ice ages somehow missed Siberia? Maybe it doesn't trouble you that the ice ages made it to South Carolina but not to Siberia. I think about these things and have probably read more about them and discussed them with more professors than you have. They don't have many answers either. It is amazing to me how many people just accept things because they were taught to them as "truth" when they were in eighth grade.

ML/NJ