Posted on 09/13/2011 1:53:07 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
What could be more moral than saying no one should be forced to care for another?
I see your morality only extends to taking care of American lives only. So I guess you let the guy die if is not American? See Leviticus 19:33-34.
Who is the “we” you refer to and just how do you propose to get “we” to take care of Americans?
What I would fight for is different from what I could live with.
It’s maybe a convoluted way of saying I’m describing something I could live with, but I’m not describing it because it is my preference, just what I think we’ll have to live with because of the reality of life.
I’m not an undecided moderate, if I had to label myself wrongly I’d say something worse — a conservative realist.
I have yet to find anybody, no matter how much they want to stop government from spending money on stuff it shouldn’t, who say they would FIGHT to pass a law that would leave patients dying on a sidewalk in front of a hospital.
If you truly believe that people should either pay their own way, OR be at the mercy of charity, you have to allow for the possibility that some people won’t take steps to be able to pay for their own treatment, and some of them simply won’t be rescued by charity.
I happen to believe that in fact, you can continue operating just fine the way we are, with hospitals required by law to treat people who can’t pay, and all of us picking up the tab. That only works if too many people don’t decide to go the freeloader route, but you can stop that by making the freeloader route unattractive, by making freeloaders wait longer and get less extensive care and treatment.
I just don’t know if we have the political will to pass the laws that would put us back in a situation where people have to fend for themselves. We’d be better off if we had never allowed our country to get away from self-reliance. But it is really hard to go back.
Illegals should not be in the country for us to “care” for. No other country in North America does this kind of abuse to their people.
And it is not abusing you to help take care of an American who is really too poor and weak (handicapped) to take care of himself. There would not be that many of them that you would even notice if it was done based on true need.
“I happen to believe that in fact, you can continue operating just fine the way we are, with hospitals required by law to treat people who can’t pay, and all of us picking up the tab. That only works if too many people don’t decide to go the freeloader route, but you can stop that by making the freeloader route unattractive, by making freeloaders wait longer and get less extensive care and treatment.”
So you are o’k if the waiting and the less extensive care and treatment results in more people dying?
I think you are saying that you don’t mind if people die from lack of care so long as you don’t have to see it.
Do you extend this logic to auto care? People die quit frequently from lack of money to pay for repairs or even to buy a safe car. Dead is dead. Does it matter if you die because I wouldn’t fix your brakes or give you a safe car (is it fair that the wealthiest people get to drive the safest cars?) rather than dying because I wouldn’t fix your kidneys?
The spawn of illegal aliens or visitors should not be deemed citizens just by being born in the US. Just stealing some cash from a bank does not make you the owner of it.
Ship them back to where their parents came from. If we determine we need them in this country, send them an application for admission to complete and submit for consideration for admittance.
Canada takes care of illegals and last I checked they are in North America.
What do you mean by “help”? Is the help you are thinking of like the “contributions” I make to the IRS?
I can’t make you fix my car, or my kidneys. You have the freeedom to take the jobs you want, and get paid what you want, until government takes over and orders you around.
I think the system now works. I don’t think we have a big problem with cost-shifting.
Your previous post said we pay the tab for the freeloaders which means if you support the current system then you are forcing me to pay for kidneys. If not literally yours then someone else’s.
Yes, that is true. We support freeloaders. The problem is that changing the system to not support freeloaders is problematic, and not really the government’s job anyway.
“the answer about this hypothetical person is, we already have medicaid.”
You have to be very poor to qualify for medicaid. Maybe after a catastrophic illness you’d be poor, but I think the qualification is based on your income before you went into the hospital..
If he’s not poor there are laws already on the books about required treatment and the hospital can send him bills for the rest of his life or he can set up a payment plan.
Hospitals don’t usually charge interest so a $20,000 bill can be paid out at $500 a month for 40 months.
Canada enforces it’s borders.
Sorry, the last post was incomplete.
Do we have more levels of government than just the IRS?
It is the State and local governments and communities that take care of the poor. In New Hampshire, it was a State issue and local communities, the people who know the problems, administred the programs for the seriously needy. Churches and non-profits performed service to make things better for poor people, too.
This is the way the Tenth amendment is supposed to work, unlike the Temple of Ayn Rand that lives by the amoral creed of Darwinism and materialism.
Under the US constitution, you don’t get rid of the responsibilities of citizenship nor do you get rid of socialists working to redistribute other people’s wealth. You still have to fight them off, but at the State and local level, rather than the National level. You just don’t have the Federal government imposing insanity like Obamacare and National education on the whole country all at the same time.
In a constitutional Republic what we would work for at the State level is to minimize the State imposing a one size fits all mandate for the whole state and leave to the locals what can and should be handled at the local level. We would still have responsibility of taking care of the the truely needy. We are not Mexico, Africa or India.
Our creative and moral muscles have gone limp in this unconstitutional socialist Federal onslaught we have today where all power and most wealth is centered in an out of touch Federal government. That is why many Americans see no option but a man without insurance dying like a dog in the street. They would rather that than to continue on with the Federal abuse we suffer.
ABSOLUTELY!!!
But we have too many ONE-WORLDERS in politics.
That includes ALL Democrats and not a few Republicans starting with the entire Bush Klan and the internationalist corporate Bilderbergers like Kissinger.
I take it you haven’t been in a hospital lately? I was in the hospital this past May for 5 days for gall bladder surgery, basically a nothing. Certainly not life threatening. The bill exceeded $20K.
Many years ago (1995) one of my kids WAS in critical care at our local hospital for 6 weeks. That bill was just under $400K. That was before he was transferred to Johns Hopkins for two months, and another month in a rehab. Talk about medical bills!!! But what’s your kid’s life worth? Every damned dime you will ever earn!
Excellent!
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