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Judge blocks Fla. law restricting doctor gun talk
CBC News ^ | September 14, 2011 | staff reporter

Posted on 09/15/2011 10:06:16 AM PDT by Daffynition

(AP) MIAMI — A federal judge on Wednesday blocked enforcement of a first-in-the-nation law that restricted what Florida physicians can say about guns to their patients, ruling the law violates the U.S. Constitution's free speech guarantees and does not trample gun rights.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke said it was important to emphasize "the free flow of truthful, non-misleading information within the doctor-patient relationship."

"This case concerns one of our Constitution's most precious rights — the freedom of speech," Cooke said. "A practitioner who counsels a patient on firearm safety, even when entirely irrelevant to medical care or safety, does not affect or interfere with the patient's right to continue to own, possess or use firearms."

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; doctors; guns; healthcare; obamacare
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No one has challenged this [June2nd] law yet?
1 posted on 09/15/2011 10:06:21 AM PDT by Daffynition
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To: Daffynition
http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Marcia_Cooke

Bush's fault. Really.

2 posted on 09/15/2011 10:09:49 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: Daffynition
This case concerns one of our Constitution's most precious rights — the freedom of speech

only in the minds of liberals are some of our constitutional rights more precious than others.

3 posted on 09/15/2011 10:11:25 AM PDT by RC one (Voting isn't a simple act of civic duty anymore, it's a complex act of civil war.)
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To: Daffynition

I had an initial consult with a new GP, and one of the first questions they asked was about guns. I told them that I would not answer any questions concerning my 2A rights. They sent me a letter a week later stating that they are not interested in my business at their practice.

No loss there. My current GP is an avid hunter and has 2 boar heads and a nice 8-pt buck hanging in his office.


4 posted on 09/15/2011 10:11:33 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Daffynition

People need to remember that whatever you say in the doctors office can be written down and placed in your file. Thereby establishing a record of you gun ownership. I have talked to my doctor about things and I have told him not to write it down. If he gives me advice he said he has to write it down so I couldn’t come back and sue him. If we went back to loser pays, this wouldn’t happen.


5 posted on 09/15/2011 10:12:41 AM PDT by RC2
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To: Daffynition
No one has challenged this [June2nd] law yet?

But physicians' groups representing some 11,000 doctors and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence sued.

The AMA has been anti-gun perhaps they were a party to this suit.

6 posted on 09/15/2011 10:13:03 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: rarestia

I’d file a complaint against them with the state medical board, just for fun.

They are denying you medical care.


7 posted on 09/15/2011 10:15:46 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: rarestia

i hate talking to my doctor about guns... he always has some nice new one to tell me about that i can’t afford.


8 posted on 09/15/2011 10:16:17 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (2x divorced tattooed pierced harley hatin meghan mccain luvin' REAL beer drinkin' smoker ..what?)
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To: rarestia

I want your Doctor.


9 posted on 09/15/2011 10:16:44 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Daffynition

This is NOT something to get mad about.

Just because you recognize gun rights does not mean a doctor does not have the right to discuss guns with you. I don’t think a doctor should be shut up about his or the medical profession’s opinion on having guns. They also tell us it’s bad to smoke and be fat, which kind of irks me, but they should have the right to say it.


10 posted on 09/15/2011 10:20:00 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: rarestia

I wonder if there is some way to sue them for fun and pleasure to make them pay a cost for their anti 2A stance or sic some conservative legal organization on them?


11 posted on 09/15/2011 10:21:14 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: absolootezer0

My dentist had a gun shop in his back room (Oklahoma). Sadly, he retired.


12 posted on 09/15/2011 10:21:14 AM PDT by Montanabound
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To: rarestia
"They sent me a letter a week later stating that they are not interested in my business at their practice"

Is that how they stated it?

geez... we should boycott libtards too. And we have actual money

13 posted on 09/15/2011 10:21:34 AM PDT by Mr. K (Palin/Bachman 2012- unbeatable ticket~!!!)
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To: Daffynition
Let me get this straight. Liberal courts judge it is OK for a Dr to ask a patient about the unrelated issue of gun ownership (and I suppose council them on the evils of owning a gun), but a Dr. can not show a sonogram to a woman seeking an abortion?

Upside down world, this is.

14 posted on 09/15/2011 10:22:11 AM PDT by KittenClaws (A closed mouth gathers no foot.)
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To: KittenClaws

Can soneone explain to me exactly what this has to do with healthcare.

Also, what law or regulation does this fall under and when was it implemented?


15 posted on 09/15/2011 10:25:44 AM PDT by neverbluffer
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To: Daffynition

If anyone asks me if I own a gun (I don’t), I’ll just ask him how long his pecker is.


16 posted on 09/15/2011 10:27:32 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: neverbluffer

I had a discussion with my doc when he asked.
He said he was being legally “compelled” to ask based on the “mental health” of the patient. If he was to determine I was at risk, then the ownership of guns was to be “reported to the authorities”...

thankfully my doc believed it was all a subversive government ploy. I didn’t answer and he didn’t mind.


17 posted on 09/15/2011 10:28:35 AM PDT by SparkyBass
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To: the OlLine Rebel

The doctor may have the right to discuss guns with you, but if he starts to ask questions, you also have the right to ignore his questions.

The number and type of guns I “may” own is none of his business. If I say I don’t own a gun, he “may” relay that information, along with my address, to certain friends of his that want to do harm to me or my family. A doctor is no more trustworthy than anyone else.


18 posted on 09/15/2011 10:30:48 AM PDT by Crazy ole coot (Freedom is NOT free. Thank our military for your freedoms!)
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To: driftdiver

—I’d file a complaint against them with the state medical board, just for fun.

They are denying you medical care.—

I was thinking the same thing. I’m all for preserving their right to ask, but we should also have a right to refuse to answer.


19 posted on 09/15/2011 10:31:50 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Daffynition; All

Simple solution when asked about firearms ownership,ask the doctor exactly what their technical training in the safe use of firearms is ,were its from Gunsite ,Blackwater some other training school ? If no such credentials ask the doctor if his malpractice insurance carrier knows what he is doing ?


20 posted on 09/15/2011 10:32:44 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Daffynition
Doctor: "Are there any guns in your household?"

Me: "How many malpractice claims have been made against you?"

21 posted on 09/15/2011 10:32:53 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Obama - Wear The Fail!)
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To: rarestia

—and one of the first questions they asked was about guns.—

A good answer is, “Does my Red Ryder bb gun count?” It’s a nice way to divert without actually lying. I have no ethical problem with helping them to incorrect inferences if the questions are inapropriate and irrelevant.

Heck, you can also say things like “Guns make me nervous”, even though you have an arsenal at home. I mean, they DO make you nervous if they are not being handled properly, right?


22 posted on 09/15/2011 10:35:42 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Nebr FAL owner

A great diversion is to ask a question as an answer. When they ask about firearm ownership, ask them, “if I were ever to buy a gun, would it be best to get training on how to use one. Heck, you could have three full gun cabinets at home. It’s still a good rhetorical question. And besides, you could even continue to steer the conversation in the direction of a gun you are “thinking of getting”, causing him to naturally assume that if you ever did it would be your first gun.

This sort of thing is actually kind of fun. I’ve done it regarding other subjects.


23 posted on 09/15/2011 10:38:57 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: rarestia

If your doctor reveals themselves to by anti-2A by asking stupid and invasive questions about your firearms, you are better off going elsewhere. I think that most gun owners would rather know if their doctor is an anti-gun snitch so as to avoid any problems in the future (especially if you have kids).
Forewarned is forearmed.


24 posted on 09/15/2011 10:39:34 AM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est)
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To: Daffynition
My wife's nephew recently married a nurse in Texas. He told her about the influx of doctors into Texas. He said the number he had heard was 13,000 more doctors.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/25/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-texas-added-21000-doctors-because-/

Rick Perry says Texas added 21,000 doctors because of tort reform.

In 2003, Texas lawmakers passed a package of changes to malpractice law, plus the state added a few more through a referendum known as Proposition 12

I ask my GP here in Missouri about 0bamacare. She said " there were changes that were needed, but 0bamacare was too much too fast."

When I ask what was the first change that she felt needed to be made? Her reply "Tort Reform"

25 posted on 09/15/2011 10:42:41 AM PDT by TYVets (Pure-Gas.org ..... ethanol free gasoline by state and city)
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To: Daffynition

Patient enforcement, if the Doc asks the question:

“You’re fired!”

Instructions to children:
“It’s none of your business Doc.”
Then leave.....


26 posted on 09/15/2011 10:43:57 AM PDT by G Larry (I dream of a day when a man is judged by the content of his character)
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To: KittenClaws

Just ask the Doctor what expert training in regard to firearms that the doctor has . If you don’t find yourself impressed with the credentials ask the doctor if their malpractice insurance carrier knows that they are practicing beyond their scope & would the doctor like you to tell them. Then watch the look on the doctors face. 8*)


27 posted on 09/15/2011 10:44:37 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Daffynition
Hey I already lie to my doctor about how much I smoke, drink, all the bad foods I eat, and how little exercise I get! Why should I worry about lying to him about owning guns?
28 posted on 09/15/2011 10:45:48 AM PDT by apillar
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To: cuban leaf

If you are discharged by your physician because of your use of firearms, they could face disciplinary action because they are discriminating against you because of your beliefs and ownership/use of a legal product.

In this case, it would be really stupid for a doctor to give you such a reason to take action against them. But Leftists (including doctors) are so careless about these things that I would not be surprised.


29 posted on 09/15/2011 10:46:20 AM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est)
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To: SparkyBass

A GP is not a “mental health expert”, I am sure all agree...


30 posted on 09/15/2011 10:50:13 AM PDT by neverbluffer
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To: neverbluffer

Exactly. My GP knew that, too. He was “following the rules” set by his HMO, but only in the most technical of ways.


31 posted on 09/15/2011 10:52:37 AM PDT by SparkyBass
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To: cuban leaf
When they ask about firearm ownership, ask them, “if I were ever to buy a gun, would it be best to get training on how to use one?"

Don't be half-hearted, ask him to recommend where you should go for training. He's the expert with the MD. he should know.

32 posted on 09/15/2011 10:53:43 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (New gets old. Steampunk is always cool)
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To: SparkyBass

Unless he is a psychiatrist he is not qualified to judge. I could be considered “crazy” by MDs offended because I only use Allopathic medicine for trauma and emergencies and use Naturopathic doctor for everything else. Don’t believe in vaccines or any other drugs. The fact of the matter is that it is none of his business, and we know that they are doing a back door information gathering project for their gun database. If any doctor ever asks me about guns, I will immediately leave and find another doctor. He has the legal right to ask whatever he wants. I have the right to leave. Just because it is a right. Does not mean that it is right.


33 posted on 09/15/2011 11:01:29 AM PDT by kaizen
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To: SparkyBass

Unless he is a psychiatrist he is not qualified to judge. I could be considered “crazy” by MDs offended because I only use Allopathic medicine for trauma and emergencies and use Naturopathic doctor for everything else. Don’t believe in vaccines or any other drugs. The fact of the matter is that it is none of his business, and we know that they are doing a back door information gathering project for their gun database. If any doctor ever asks me about guns, I will immediately leave and find another doctor. He has the legal right to ask whatever he wants. I have the right to leave. Just because it is a right. Does not mean that it is right.


34 posted on 09/15/2011 11:01:42 AM PDT by kaizen
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To: the OlLine Rebel

You don’t know the story behind the story. The AAP is led by radicals, and it was their intention from the start to use pediatricians to essentially threaten gun owning parents, directly and indirectly, that their children could be taken from them if they continued to own guns. It was done in a very cynical and duplicitous manner.

First, the AAP passed a rule that made it the “ethical responsibility” of pediatricians to talk to the parents of their patients, to determine if they had guns in their homes. Refusal to say was *grounds*, as far as the AAP was concerned, for pediatricians to refuse service.

And this matters, because people may live very far from the next pediatrician, or a small group of pediatricians who were anti-gun could basically lock them out of reasonable pediatric care at all in a large radius.

Second, any information they provided would be put into the child’s electronic medical file, where it could be readily accessed, without warrant, by law enforcement and the State’s Child Protective Services, among many others. This meant that, *for any reason*, if parents were investigated by CPS, their *ownership* of guns could be used as a consideration of whether or not they were “fit parents”.

That is, their owning guns could be a partial “reason” to take their children away.

Third, if parents had a child, and wished to adopt another child, their gun ownership could be cited as a “reason” to not let them adopt, because they “had an unsafe household”. That is, because they owned guns.

The utter viciousness of the AAP in doing this was very intentional, done with tremendous cynicism about “first amendment rights”, because they wanted to *facilitate* the stripping of parents of their second amendment rights. It was a very planned scheme, and the intention had nothing to do with children, and everything to do with gun control.

From the AAP website:

“Advice to parents

“The best way to keep your children safe from injury or death from guns is to NEVER have a gun in the home.

-Do not purchase a gun, especially a handgun.
-Remove all guns present in the home.
-Talk to your children about the dangers of guns, and tell them to stay away from guns.
-Find out if there are guns in the homes where your children play. If so, talk to the adults in the house about the dangers of guns to their families.”


35 posted on 09/15/2011 11:04:26 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Oztrich Boy

The whole point is to be half-hearted. It deflects more probing questions. People are basically lazy. If he thinks he’s barking up the wrong tree he’ll quit wasting his time, unless he is a zealot. In which case a whole nother strategy is necessary and even more productive.


36 posted on 09/15/2011 11:05:49 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: rarestia

To the first doc who asks me that question, I will ask, “How often do you molest children, doctor?” That clearly is of greater relevance to my child’s health.


37 posted on 09/15/2011 11:05:57 AM PDT by DPMD (~)
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To: Montanabound

>My dentist had a gun shop in his back room (Oklahoma). Sadly, he retired.

“He could make your bullets AND your fillings!”

;)


38 posted on 09/15/2011 11:26:18 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Daffynition

If a doctor asks you about your guns, ask him or her about their sex life.


39 posted on 09/15/2011 11:29:41 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: the OlLine Rebel

You may not fully understand. It is not just a discussion, it is a Medical Records chart, in writing, with SS# of parents on it... and many other items. It can and will be linked to national databases. This is not right. Correct safety with firearms is a function of proper parenting and training. The questionnaire doesn’t ask about other things— like crack in the home, alcoholism of the parents,

The pediatrician’s national group has a position paper (based on CDC “studies” of dubious merit and politically left wing driven outcomes, like global warming) on the private ownership of weapons, all sorts, and guns. The database gathered in such questioning goes to insurance companies-— no privacy at all.
And, one should add, under obamacare this would be nationalized and interfaced with the IRS and Treasury. De Facto ad hoc removal of the 2nd Amendment. It is like Hitler and the brownshirts confiscating guns from Jews, and others because of their “public safety” threat. It happened and this is neosocialism.

Physicians operate within the 1st Amendment to the extent that their patients will let them. Just like anywhere else. And this crosses the line into serious Big Brother medicine.
The suit will be appealed by Atty General with numerous amicus briefs.


40 posted on 09/15/2011 11:32:23 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: DPMD

And there are a considerable number of pediatricians who have been outed as pederasts. Bingo.


41 posted on 09/15/2011 11:33:34 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: NativeNewYorker
If anyone asks me if I own a gun (I don’t), I’ll just ask him how long his pecker is.

LOL. Perfect

42 posted on 09/15/2011 11:35:52 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: NativeNewYorker
If anyone asks me if I own a gun (I don’t), I’ll just ask him how long his pecker is.

LOL. Perfect

43 posted on 09/15/2011 11:36:00 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Crazy ole coot

I understand, but I didn’t say anything about you refusing to answer - and I don’t think the law does, either.

As for the concern about doctors spreading the info - do they ask about sexual activity? Are they allowed (they should be, since it is definitely a health issue - unless you’re homo, in which case it has nothing to do with AIDS)? Which also is basically invisible to anyone at large. Do you worry about them spreading that info? Conversely, what if I tell the doc I’m a virgin (which I was till married) but don’t want all those sexually immoral people, who rule society now, after me saying I’m nuts and need to see a psych because I don’t screw just anyone (see the Oprah show)? Or that I don’t and have never drunk? They ask those questions all the time.


44 posted on 09/15/2011 11:49:54 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: neverbluffer

Because guns can even accidentally go off loaded and kill you.


45 posted on 09/15/2011 11:50:52 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: RC one

Exactly!


46 posted on 09/15/2011 12:03:15 PM PDT by Daffynition (Obama's job plan is that it's all designed as a desperate effort to save just one job: his own)
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To: rarestia

Categorize your experience: Things that happen for the best.


47 posted on 09/15/2011 12:04:50 PM PDT by Daffynition (Obama's job plan is that it's all designed as a desperate effort to save just one job: his own)
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To: John S Mosby; yefragetuwrabrumuy

I appreciate your info, and thanks. Food for thought.

I don’t necessarily know that this is still necessary. As others have said - refuse. And they should likewise have the right to refuse you service.

If there’s actually “reporting” going on, that’s bad - but then we can worry about that with various things in our lives and that governments have been “requiring” for ages.


48 posted on 09/15/2011 12:09:17 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Crazy ole coot

I recently started with a new doc. He was very nice and came with glowing recommendation from neighbors and friends; in the first few moments I knew I liked him b/c he seemed to listen and *level* with you. He asked the question. I boldly told him it was *none of his GD business.* He LOLed and said, *Guess we’ll put down ...Don’t ask, she won’t tell.* We laughed and laughed. He’s a good guy and I have since learned he is a Marine. If the question ever comes up again, I would ask what his intention with the answer would be.

I would worry about my 8 y/o GD who is very chatty and proud of her shooting experiences thus far in her young life. I don’t like the thought that I have to teach her about white lies. But we will have that convo.


49 posted on 09/15/2011 12:26:16 PM PDT by Daffynition (ARM)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Kinky.

That’d make a good first impression. :)


50 posted on 09/15/2011 12:28:11 PM PDT by Daffynition (ARM)
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