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To: Tailgunner Joe
Hmm. Can't imagine why Poland might be a bit paranoid about Germany and Russia working together. Is it paranoia if they're really out to get you?
3 posted on 09/16/2011 12:59:00 PM PDT by Vroomfondel
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To: Vroomfondel

Ribbentrop rides again? I thought we hanged his *ss at Nurenberg?


4 posted on 09/16/2011 1:10:47 PM PDT by 353FMG (Liberalism is Satan's handiwork.)
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To: Vroomfondel
Is it paranoia if they're really out to get you?

It would be far more productive to think why Russia and Germany are forging direct links instead of working through Poland.

The Nord Stream pipeline is routed on the bottom of the Baltic Sea. It is clearly more expensive to build an underwater pipeline than a land-based one. Why did they do it underwater, bypassing Baltic states and Poland? Mr. Sikorski can take a cookie once he figures out the answer.

The real deal here is that Russia is a reliable supplier of a product, and Germany is a reliable consumer of that product. Germany is the leader of the EU pack however you put it; they still know how to do things despite all that creeping socialism in Europe. Germany is practically the only country (and France, perhaps) that Russia can deal with; the rest are paper tigers on clay feet (see Greece.)

Once it is understood, what role would Poland want to play in that game? Can Poland add some value to the deal? Sure it could, were it rock solid politically. But it really isn't. The country oscillates between different shades of dislikes - they hate Germany for utterly destroying them 70 years ago, and they hate Russia for "saving" them (by forcing socialism upon them) for most of the time after that, and for other sins. Hate, however, is not a productive feeling. Neither Russia nor Germany, on the level of individual businessmen, wants to deal with people who hate them.

Poland would do well if it looks at the example of Germany. One would think that no bitterest enemy may exist in Europe after what Germany did in WWII. But the whole world long understood that country is nothing but its people, and people who were guilty are long dead. Several generations changed since then. Whatever Germany is today, it is the today's Germany - not the Germany of Hitler and Hess. Similarly, Stalin is not the leader of Russia anymore, and communists aren't in power since 1990's, and the Emperor Hirohito is occupied elsewhere.

But the sad part is that hate is so much profitable politically... Poland is just a tiny example, and their distrust toward other countries is small. For real examples of hate you can turn to Islamic countries. Those are the real masters of hate. Strong emotions can push people to do things that no sane human would ever do. The weapon of hate is a nuclear bomb of politics; Hitler skillfully used it.

5 posted on 09/16/2011 1:41:14 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Vroomfondel
1939 was the last partition of Poland. The first three occurred from 1772-1795 when Russia, Prussia (Germany), and Austrian cut up and then ended Poland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

Of course Modern Poland was created thanks to the efforts of the Germans in 1918.

8 posted on 09/16/2011 8:37:34 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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